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[Redarrow]

But by the same token i do understand a fans point of view if they've been up at the crack of dawn, done a 600 mile round trip to Morecambe, got home at midnight and spent nearly a hundred quid and the players don't show any effort. Therefore it's a delicate balancing act between encouraging players who are simply just having a bad game through no fault of their own and voicing your displeasure at players who are having a bad game because they simply aren't trying their best and working hard enough.

I think with most football fans the old adage still holds true. If a player gives 100% then most fans can accept and forgive a poor performance or a defeat yet for some reason there are a hell of a lot of players who still haven't grasped this simple equation.

I completely understand this post, you can see what affect negative fans can have on a football club ‘recently Arsenal’ and can really play on players minds, that being said I have myself witnessed full blown punch ups in a dressing room when a certain player was called out for not trying, players care as much as fans believe it or not, they wouldn’t have made it in the game if they weren’t passionate winners and very competitive. Positive support really does make a huge huge huge difference, it changes the whole tempo of the game when in possession.

 

[IndoMike]

But by the same token i do understand a fans point of view if they've been up at the crack of dawn, done a 600 mile round trip to Morecambe, got home at midnight and spent nearly a hundred quid and the players don't show any effort. Therefore it's a delicate balancing act between encouraging players who are simply just having a bad game through no fault of their own and voicing your displeasure at players who are having a bad game because they simply aren't trying their best and working hard enough.

I think with most football fans the old adage still holds true. If a player gives 100% then most fans can accept and forgive a poor performance or a defeat yet for some reason there are a hell of a lot of players who still haven't grasped this simple equation.

Yep. Perry Groves said that he got stick from Arsenal fans but because he was an energetic type of player they'd usually forgive his weaknesses. He said because Xhaka is not particularly active their fans don't like him. It's probably the same for Ozil. He's a clever footballer and skillful, but always looks lazy, so the fans don't like him either.

 

[Legohead]

Yep. Perry Groves said that he got stick from Arsenal fans but because he was an energetic type of player they'd usually forgive his weaknesses. He said because Xhaka is not particularly active their fans don't like him. It's probably the same for Ozil. He's a clever footballer and skillful, but always looks lazy, so the fans don't like him either.

In my personal opinion it's the money that players are on nowadays which has shifted the goalposts in terms of how fans view them along with their attitude towards the game. I'll not stop there because i also feel the gulf between fans and players is now far to big to ever be bridged. This also helps nurture a 'them and us' mentality amongst some fans when in actual fact the relationship between fan and player should be symbiotic and based on mutual respect.

Take Ozil for example. He's reportedly on £300k a week which firstly is no fault of his own. It was Arsenal who decided to offer him that amount of money but because it's such a ludicrous amount he is expected to perform like Messi every week and it just doesn't work like that. Footballers are human and whether they are on 50 quid a week or 500 grand a week has no bearing on their weekly performance. All players will have bad / ineffective games.

That said, Ozil should have the attitude that because he's being paid 300k a week then he should make every effort to show he deserves this but he doesn't. He shows disregard for the fans, a poor attitude and a contentness that suggests he's on 300k a week for the rest of his contract whether he makes the effort or not. It then comes down to mentality and most players don't put their desire to be the best, to work hard for the team and fans and to win things before money. IMO.

My frustration is that a player on 300k a week should be entertaining and performing at the top level most weeks as his profile and wages would suggest. Ronaldo and Messi do it and others too to a lesser extent like Van Dijk, Salah etc etc. My problem with a lot of players is not necessarily the money they are on it's the fact that they don't produce to a reasonably consistent level that their wages and profile suggest. In addition to this is the high prices of tickets, especially in the Premier League which has reached a price that no longer suffices for just a football match but now has to include guaranteed entertainment.

It's this lack of guaranteed entertainment and lack of consistent performances by individual players given the wages they are on and the ticket prices paid that makes increasing sections of fans feel justified to shout abuse and criticism. It's all about scale and increased expectations due to the high cost of following a team and the stupid wages that players are on regardless of whether they perform or not.

If i was a fan of my local team and paid a tenner to watch Matlock Town and they lost 6-0 at home to Grantham Town then i'd be annoyed but i'd know i'd only spent a tenner and i'd know that the players were on a few hundred quid a week and i wouldn't feel like they are swanning around living the life of reilly whilst not making the effort on the pitch.

It's the proliferation of mostly average, inconsistent players earning ridiculous amounts of money that has caused this unrest amongst fans because fans expect more of them and IMO they are right to do so. Take Theo Walcott at Everton as an example. I have no idea what money he's on but when was the last time he seriously contributed to a game? When was the last time he wowed Toffees fans and they left Goodison Park remembering a scintillating performance? They don't because he's just one of these run of the mill players on shedloads that doesn't actually produce a great deal. I feel some fans think why SHOULD they support and encourage players like this? Football is littered with players like this. Arguably as the game has always had but as i've pointed out, it's the amount of money that players are on now combined with this social media celebrity status that they all aspire to have that is alienating fans.

Then Walcott will be putting pictures and stupid meaningless messages over social media afterwards and seemingly putting more effort into maintaining his 'online presence' and image than actually respecting his own supporters and doing what he should be doing on the pitch.

It's an attitude problem that is prevalent in society, not just with footballers. There are too many distractions for players nowadays and too many ways to make excuses and not be accountable for their performances and behaviour.

Xhaka for example. It's his attitude and petulance that is the problem. They have a sense of entitlement now and zero accountability. Nothing is ever their fault and they have never been further away from real fans than they have now.

 

[Dannyred]

I myself have played in front of a large crowd over the years and I can assure you when someone sings your name you hear it loud and clear and gives you a huge adrenaline rush and you find an extra 10% out of knowhere.....when fans sing about the opposition or the ref you can’t hear a thing, it sounds like the old TVs you used to get with the fuzzy black and white Chanel!!

So in answer to your question, what fans sing does make a huge difference!!

Spot on post, If city fans really want to help the team then be positive and get behind them not bother singing about the hatred of another team most city fans don’t care about or some of the other odd songs that are embarrassing need to be erased.

Positive songs will do more good for the team.

 

[Legohead]

Spot on post, If city fans really want to help the team then be positive and get behind them not bother singing about the hatred of another team most city fans don’t care about or some of the other odd songs that are embarrassing need to be erased.

Positive songs will do more good for the team.

I think most would agree with you generally Danny but the singing of songs about rival clubs is all part of football culture and so long as it's not ALL that is sung and it's not all effin Argyle this and effin Argyle that, then in moderation i don't see that as a particular problem.

It's when these songs are sung with genuine hatred and anger that you see in people's faces and it gets out of hand that i have a problem but again, that's more to do with the individual than the song itself.

 

[Redarrow]

I think most would agree with you generally Danny but the singing of songs about rival clubs is all part of football culture and so long as it's not ALL that is sung and it's not all effin Argyle this and effin Argyle that, then in moderation i don't see that as a particular problem.

It's when these songs are sung with genuine hatred and anger that you see in people's faces and it gets out of hand that i have a problem but again, that's more to do with the individual than the song itself.

I must admit I agree with you both here to a certain extent, part of football for some fans is to have a beer or two and get in the mix up in the big bank, sing songs and enjoy themselves but it’s a shame a lot of them don’t put the same effort in when singing a song about the size of Bowmans head, the positive chants are a lot quieter around SJP than the chants about Argyle unfortunately!!

 

[i8cornwall]

I must admit I agree with you both here to a certain extent, part of football for some fans is to have a beer or two and get in the mix up in the big bank, sing songs and enjoy themselves but it’s a shame a lot of them don’t put the same effort in when singing a song about the size of Bowmans head, the positive chants are a lot quieter around SJP than the chants about Argyle unfortunately!!

The last part of you're post is spot on to be honest. Song about Argyle seem to get a lot more participation then others from lower down the bank and in the other two stands. Now is this down to them being slightly older songs compared to some of the newer ones sung i don't know.

 

[Redarrow]

The last part of you're post is spot on to be honest. Song about Argyle seem to get a lot more participation then others from lower down the bank and in the other two stands. Now is this down to them being slightly older songs compared to some of the newer ones sung i don't know.

That’s a good point and in fairness the songs about argyle have been around years and years, it’s a shame it’s the songs the young folk will pick up and will carry them on so I can imagine the argyle chants will be around for many more years to come yet,

lots of clubs have their own song that really brings the atmosphere of the whole ground together and it’s a goosebumps moment, I.e you’ll never walk alone or even hi ho silver lining at the chiefs, gets everyone singing and up on their feet and this really lifts their players.

 

[Legohead]

There have been occasions where we've sung the Stanno song for a good few minutes with the drum and with each verse there seemed to be more and more fans getting the confidence and motivation to join in and we got a really good bouncing rhythm going which was amazing.

 

[CityTillIDie]

Have the RL ever thought about standing directly behind the goal? I feel like if the bank was looking down on them there would be more participation?