UK Lockdown

[Spoonz Red E]

I have still not seen any evidence over the past 15 months that doesnt show that China have spent years secretly vaccinating their entire population before unleashing a deadly virus on the rest of the world from which they are largely immune. I am not normally a conspiracy theory type, but something doesn't ring true about this 'global' pandemic.

Allowing for tongue in cheek, and vaccinating against Whoosh21, giving 1.4 billion people multiple vaccine injections over several years 'secretly' would be one hell of a feat.

More likely that authoritarianism plays its part in lockdown thoroughness and track and trace.
That and the under-reporting of cases and deaths bad news that is customary from regimes such as China.

Worldwide virus warfare is a very risky and scattergun approach to economic and cultural domination when, despite whatever else can be nailed down by State rule, you are an integral part of a global trading economy.

 

[Alistair20000]

I have still not seen any evidence over the past 15 months that doesnt show that China have spent years secretly vaccinating their entire population before unleashing a deadly virus on the rest of the world from which they are largely immune. I am not normally a conspiracy theory type, but something doesn't ring true about this 'global' pandemic.

I would be interested to know from virologists whether the variants of Covid-19 are following the pattern of earlier pandemics and in particular whether the number of different variants is unusual.

I am not a conspiracy theory type either but it has crossed my mind whether Chinese persons with phials of slightly different laboratory grown variants have been despatched for circulation on a country basis around the world. In other words, the Kent variant is really Wuhan A, the South African variant Wuhan B, the Indian variant Wuhan C and so forth.

So far this Covid-19 is not a serious killer in the sense of being an existential threat to humanity or even anything close to that. On that basis it could be used by a rogue state as a form of economic warfare. All developed countries have taken a massive economic hit but economic growth in China has surged. My client that supplies PPE sources the vast majority of it from China and supply has been plentiful.

 

[IndoMike]

I have still not seen anyd evidence over the past 15 months that doesnt show that China have spent years secretly vaccinating their entire population before unleashing a deadly virus on the rest of the world from which they are largely immune. I am not normally a conspiracy theory type, but something doesn't ring true about this 'global' pandemic.

You mean it wasn't Starmer??!?
Yes, those dastardly Chinese innoculated 1.7bn Chinese folk and then sent the virus all the way around the world. A cunning plan..
But wait! Isn't it true that the Chinese have. a mahoosive export business and huge investments around the world? Did they really want the world economy to collapse?
Isn't it possible that because it is a dictatorship when they locked down EVERYONE obeyed, unlike most other countries?
PS. I hear aliens are on the way to planet earth as we speak, with Elvis at the head

Sorry, RP, I'm.jusf breaking your ballz
Look forward to the next conspiracy...

 

[Alistair20000]

Morning Indo

Is it still possible to get some ciggies and Bintang in downtown Jakarta ?

 

[IndoMike]

Morning Indo

Is it still possible to get some ciggies and Bintang in downtown Jakarta ?

In Jakarta everything is possible.

There's not a total lockdown : a lot of shops are open and all of the huge shopping malls are, too. They're gradually getting through the vaccination program (the missus has had her first vac the other day and the second in a month's time.).

It's the second week of the fasting month, but many cafes and eateries are still open as long as they follow the covid protocols
and are discreet (usually the windows of such establishments are covered up if along the street but in malls not so) . Schools are still closed but with online teaching. Offices are mainly WFH

So really life can carry on in a fairly but not totally normally way, but don't mistake that for a careless attitude : there are lots of checks and information. Calling folks to attend vaccinations is all online.

 

[Alistair20000]

You mean it wasn't Starmer??!?
Yes, those dastardly Chinese innoculated 1.7bn Chinese folk and then sent the virus all the way around the world. A cunning plan..
But wait! Isn't it true that the Chinese have. a mahoosive export business and huge investments around the world? Did they really want the world economy to collapse?
Isn't it possible that because it is a dictatorship when they locked down EVERYONE obeyed, unlike most other countries?
PS. I hear aliens are on the way to planet earth as we speak, with Elvis at the head

Sorry, RP, I'm.jusf breaking your ballz
Look forward to the next conspiracy...

No they did not want the world economy to collapse and your ability to source your ciggies and Bintang shows it has not. What they wanted to do (some say) is to damage the economies of other countries while they continue to grow theirs. Even if they did not plan this, that has been the outcome to date.

 

[IndoMike]

No they did not want the world economy to collapse and your ability to source your ciggies and Bintang shows it has not. What they wanted to do (some say) is to damage the economies of other countries while they continue to grow theirs. Even if they did not plan this, that has been the outcome to date.

Wasn't their economy growing much faster than any other before Covid? It's frankly absurd (crazy) to think that this was all a dastardly plan.
What I can agree with is the idea that they were slow to share information and be transparent, but they're like that about most things.
I truly believe that this virus jumped from animal to human, that the Chinese thought they could handle it so kept it a secret, then realised that they couldn't and had to spill the beanz. It's also true that there are thousands if not millions of similar viruses waiting to pounce all around the world. As most scientists agree, this will not be the last

 

[Alistair20000]

Wasn't their economy growing much faster than any other before Covid? It's frankly absurd (crazy) to think that this was all a dastardly plan.
What I can agree with is the idea that they were slow to share information and be transparent, but they're like that about most things.
I truly believe that this virus jumped from animal to human, that the Chinese thought they could handle it so kept it a secret, then realised that they couldn't and had to spill the beanz. It's also true that there are thousands if not millions of similar viruses waiting to pounce all around the world. As most scientists agree, this will not be the last

Chinese economy was indeed growing pre Covid but the Jinxster posted some data on the exponential growth since and as a result of Covid.

There is a letter about pathogens and zoonosis in the Torygraph today that says there are thousands of scientists around the world working on pathogens, so yes lots more risk out there with no control over what they are up to. WHO is ineffective. The writer of the letter says he was involved in bio security and the experts in that field did not expect their use in bio warfare. Not sure why. Like RP he says there is something that looks decidedly odd about this Covid fecker including its very high contagion rate and spreading and the number of variants that have arrived at such speed. He makes the point that the Chinese have been eating bats and pangolins for hundreds of years so why has it jumped species to humans this time ? We don't know enough about the writer to evaluate his credentials but the points raised are interesting and seem worth drilling down into.

If this thing did develop out of a laboratory I tend to agree it is more likely to be as a result of a c*ck up than deliberate action. That said we are dealing with a rogue state here.

 

[IndoMike]

Chinese economy was indeed growing pre Covid but the Jinxster posted some data on the exponential growth since and as a result of Covid.

There is a letter about pathogens and zoonosis in the Torygraph today that says there are thousands of scientists around the world working on pathogens, so yes lots more risk out there with no control over what they are up to. WHO is ineffective. The writer of the letter says he was involved in bio security and the experts in that field did not expect their use in bio warfare. Not sure why. Like RP he says there is something that looks decidedly odd about this Covid fecker including its very high contagion rate and spreading and the number of variants that have arrived at such speed. He makes the point that the Chinese have been eating bats and pangolins for hundreds of years so why has it jumped species to humans this time ? We don't know enough about the writer to evaluate his credentials but the points raised are interesting and seem worth drilling down into.

If this thing did develop out of a laboratory I tend to agree it is more likely to be as a result of a c*ck up than deliberate action. That said we are dealing with a rogue state here.

Fair enough
I would say that because the Chinese are ahead of the game that would explain why their economy is growing even faster at the moment. Since it is an authoritarian state it has always had an advantage over Western nations, including the ability to mass produce on a very rapid time-scale at low production cost. Let's be honest here, sadly an authoritarian govt can handle a crisis much better than the govt of a democratic nation. There is no endless debate, no hand-wringing.
The logistics of vaccinating a nation with well over a billion inhabitants in secret prior to releasing a deadly virus amongst the populous is mind-blowing. If the argument is that they didn't release it but just exported it then that doesn't fit with the images we have seen, unless they were all play-acting.
We know that these viruses are latent in many wildlife creatures, so it is not strange to think that this allegedly appeared in China first. Don't forget ebola started in Africa.
I am no fan of the Chinese authoritarian regime whatsoever, but we have to differentiate between our natural dislike of the Chinese political system and the logical conclusion of how this started.

 

[DB9]

Fair enough
I would say that because the Chinese are ahead of the game that would explain why their economy is growing even faster at the moment. Since it is an authoritarian state it has always had an advantage over Western nations, including the ability to mass produce on a very rapid time-scale at low production cost. Let's be honest here, sadly an authoritarian govt can handle a crisis much better than the govt of a democratic nation. There is no endless debate, no hand-wringing.
The logistics of vaccinating a nation with well over a billion inhabitants in secret prior to releasing a deadly virus amongst the populous is mind-blowing. If the argument is that they didn't release it but just exported it then that doesn't fit with the images we have seen, unless they were all play-acting.
We know that these viruses are latent in many wildlife creatures, so it is not strange to think that this allegedly appeared in China first. Don't forget ebola started in Africa.
I am no fan of the Chinese authoritarian regime whatsoever, but we have to differentiate between our natural dislike of the Chinese political system and the logical conclusion of how this started.

Indeed, There's is a totally system. Apparently a while back they built 1000km of railtrack in six weeks! Makes our HS2 seem really slow but they do have an infinite supply of manpower and I can't imagine the Chinese having to go through our hellish planning applications with public inquires etc, They say it's going through this route and you're in the way, Tough!