Oldham v Exeter discussion thread

[IndoMike]

You need to open your eyes up a bit. It's not about playing three centre backs, it's about getting more men in midfield. Getting Matt Jay that little bit of space in between the lines where he can be devastating either in creation or finishing. Compressing their side in the way we do when we're at our best, no time, no space. You might not want to hear stories of certain players being tired but Taylor and Collins have been playing twice a week with break and it's showing, especially in Collins.

Can"t agree with you. Having three at the back takes a player away from a more advanced position. Against a poor team like Oldham there's no reason why Key and Page can't attack at the right time. I trust our two centre backs to be able to handle Oldham's probable one striker
Regarding tiredness, in the old days players didn't get tired, even though they played on much heavier surfaces and had a worse diet and training facilities
If young professional footballers at their physical prime can't handle two matches a week then I don't know why. It is their job, after all. The only caveat to that is that the training must be spot on
Knowing that soon they will be getting their summer break, I would expect all uninjured players to be available and ready for the fight.I have another comment about that but will hold back for a couple of matches to see what happens.
I respect your opinion, Harris : please respect mine

 

[grecIAN Harris]

Can"t agree with you. Having three at the back takes a player away from a more advanced position. Against a poor team like Oldham there's no reason why Key and Page can't attack at the right time. I trust our two centre backs to be able to handle Oldham's probable one striker
Regarding tiredness, in the old days players didn't get tired, even though they played on much heavier surfaces and had a worse diet and training facilities
If young professional footballers at their physical prime can't handle two matches a week then I don't know why. It is their job, after all. The only caveat to that is that the training must be spot on
Knowing that soon they will be getting their summer break, I would expect all uninjured players to be available and ready for the fight.I have another comment about that but will hold back for a couple of matches to see what happens.
I respect your opinion, Harris : please respect mine

It's not about respect or lack of. It's about telling you what I'm seeing that quite clearly you're not. I like 4-4-2 but if Oldham are as crap as you think they are why attack with four when you can have five with width and Matt Jay pulling the strings in hard to reach places as far as defending him goes. As for tiredness, I know where your coming from but this season is like no other. You can't tell me that has been a season where teams are playing twice a week virtually all season. It might get like it from the back end of February if the weathers been bad or we've a good cup run or two but I've never seen a season where you're looking for the midweek breaks rather than the midweek games.
More over, have you seen the shape Oldham play with? 3-4-2-1. If you play 3-5-2 against that, we're overloading them up front or Matt Jay gets space if they want to play with a sweeper. If they play with a sweeper, we're overloading the midfield and Matt Jay is still free. As they have no full backs/wing backs there is plenty of space for Key and Sparkes to fill their boots in wide areas. I would imagine with that sort of shape they want to try and play, so as I suggested previously we have a strong on to pressure fast and hard and stop them from doing that

 

[IndoMike]

It's not about respect or lack of. It's about telling you what I'm seeing that quite clearly you're not. I like 4-4-2 but if Oldham are as crap as you think they are why attack with four when you can have five with width and Matt Jay pulling the strings in hard to reach places as far as defending him goes. As for tiredness, I know where your coming from but this season is like no other. You can't tell me that has been a season where teams are playing twice a week virtually all season. It might get like it from the back end of February if the weathers been bad or we've a good cup run or two but I've never seen a season where you're looking for the midweek breaks rather than the midweek games.
More over, have you seen the shape Oldham play with? 3-4-2-1. If you play 3-5-2 against that, we're overloading them up front or Matt Jay gets space if they want to play with a sweeper. If they play with a sweeper, we're overloading the midfield and Matt Jay is still free. As they have no full backs/wing backs there is plenty of space for Key and Sparkes to fill their boots in wide areas. I would imagine with that sort of shape they want to try and play, so as I suggested previously we have a strong on to pressure fast and hard and stop them from doing that

Opinions about football are just that : opinions. Neither you nor I are football gurus and we don't know the answers to everything. Even professional managers don't even know.
So my opinion is that our defenders are more comfortable playing 4-4-2. If we played 3-5-2 and had a centre back comfortable moving into midfield then that would help, but at the moment we don't.
Regarding the pressing game, you can"t keep that up for a whole game : it has to be at certain moments when 2-3 players swarm over a defender when the defender has been out in a difficult position.
Wherever players are positioned there will be new space created. Obviously playing wingers stretches the opponents, so when you're attacking that's probably a good thing but can also leave yourself wide-open to counter attack if the midfield is stretched out.
The funny thing is there is no way we can know who is right, because we can't play the same game twice simultaneously. We could win 2-0 using 4-4-2 but maybe we could have won 4-0 using 3-5-3.....or vice versa. That's why it's about opinions : it can't be evidence- based

 

[Legohead]

It can't be evidence based? You are Boris Johnson and i claim my 5 pounds.

The pressing game is when we at our best and most effective but it is not possible to play like this every game. It is just unfortunate that in quite a few games when we haven't played in this aggressive manner we have not managed to grind results out, Newport away being one obvious exception. This is perhaps why we are where we are. Most teams can't live with us when we play like we did against Scunny / Orient etc but it's about grinding out a few positive results when we cannot play with this energy and intensity and we haven't been able to manage that recently.

 

[grecIAN Harris]

Opinions about football are just that : opinions. Neither you nor I are football gurus and we don't know the answers to everything. Even professional managers don't even know.
So my opinion is that our defenders are more comfortable playing 4-4-2. If we played 3-5-2 and had a centre back comfortable moving into midfield then that would help, but at the moment we don't.
Regarding the pressing game, you can"t keep that up for a whole game : it has to be at certain moments when 2-3 players swarm over a defender when the defender has been out in a difficult position.
Wherever players are positioned there will be new space created. Obviously playing wingers stretches the opponents, so when you're attacking that's probably a good thing but can also leave yourself wide-open to counter attack if the midfield is stretched out.
The funny thing is there is no way we can know who is right, because we can't play the same game twice simultaneously. We could win 2-0 using 4-4-2 but maybe we could have won 4-0 using 3-5-3.....or vice versa. That's why it's about opinions : it can't be evidence- based

If you can't make your opinions based on evidence then you're just making things up as you go along. The only good things that are made up are fairy tales.

 

[IndoMike]

If you can't make your opinions based on evidence then you're just making things up as you go along. The only good things that are made up are fairy tales.

So how can you prove to me that if we play 4-4-2, no matter what the result is, it would have been better to have played 3-5-2?
You can't, can you?
What is your evidence to prove you are right? You don't have it. It's just your opinion : if you like, your fairy tale
But isn't that the beauty of football?
There are so many opinions about players, line -ups, the manager, but none of us has been professionals in the world of football. Who knows which one of us is right?

 

[grecIAN Harris]

Can"t agree with you. Having three at the back takes a player away from a more advanced position. Against a poor team like Oldham there's no reason why Key and Page can't attack at the right time. I trust our two centre backs to be able to handle Oldham's probable one striker
Regarding tiredness, in the old days players didn't get tired, even though they played on much heavier surfaces and had a worse diet and training facilities
If young professional footballers at their physical prime can't handle two matches a week then I don't know why. It is their job, after all. The only caveat to that is that the training must be spot on
Knowing that soon they will be getting their summer break, I would expect all uninjured players to be available and ready for the fight.I have another comment about that but will hold back for a couple of matches to see what happens.
I respect your opinion, Harris : please respect mine

Well I wasn't far wrong Michael. He just kept Collins in and left Seymour on the bench.

 

[StroudGrecian]

Despite not playing much recently Sweeney looks knackered.

Pierce Sweeney pre Oldham Athletic (A) | Exeter City Football Club - YouTube

Looks like he's been on the potcheen

Sponsored by Domino's

 

[IndoMike]

Well I wasn't far wrong Michael. He just kept Collins in and left Seymour on the bench.

And? In my team I picked Collins and said no to Seymour.

 

[IndoMike]

It can't be evidence based? You are Boris Johnson and i claim my 5 pounds.

The pressing game is when we at our best and most effective but it is not possible to play like this every game. It is just unfortunate that in quite a few games when we haven't played in this aggressive manner we have not managed to grind results out, Newport away being one obvious exception. This is perhaps why we are where we are. Most teams can't live with us when we play like we did against Scunny / Orient etc but it's about grinding out a few positive results when we cannot play with this energy and intensity and we haven't been able to manage that recently.

Lego, I don't see the connection between what I wrote and what you have written above