A message for Paul Tisdale

[FAN-TATIC]

Let's assume for one moment that management in fact "emphasised the importance of this derby" along with others that have been played recently. This being the case you would have to come to the conclusion that the ability to "play up" the importance of the fixtures and achieve a performance that suggests that both players and management understand, is sadly missing.

I will agree that the player's performances in this years Devon Derbies has been very disappointing. Whether that is down to management decisions or the player's inability to handle the pressure of these games and as a result their performances suffer, I don't know.
What I do know, because it is common sense, is the for the fans these games are massive. I am also aware that football and Exeter City is my hobby, for the players it's their job, it's what they do to earn a living. They can be City player this week and, for example a Barnsley player next week. The 'loyalty' is transferred along with the player.

They will be very disappointed with their performance on Saturday, but that goes with the job. It happens to all of us at some time or another, however we choose to earn our living.

 

[STURTZ]

It's true that it's our league position that really counts, look at where we'd be if we got just half of the points on offer from the Rovers, Torquay or Plymouth matches.

Our inability to rise to the occasion has hindered our chances at promotion.

 

[ECFC Music]

Unfortunately Derby matches usually turn out to be disappointing from a good football perspective. Far too hectic with players forsaking their normal games and serving up the kind of fare we have witnessed this season.But thats the way it is with most all of these matches not just those involving City.
Quite frankly whilst it's nice to beat our near neighbours i'd much sooner judge our achievements over the course of the season rather than become fixated with results against any one club be it our nearest rivals or otherwise.

 

[Red Lion]

Couldn't be there yesterday, but what I gleaned from the radio and the lads I know who were there, there were several 'players' wearing a City shirt who went on the pitch having left their spines, hearts and balls tucked away safely in the dressing room.

I completely agree with the op.

And to be honest, yes, I would swap at least a draw yesterday for promotion. On that performance, our leader-less, gut-less team would/will come straight back down anyway.

 

[angelic upstart]

To lie down and be walked all over in any game is unacceptable.

But to do it in our derby with THEM is totally UNFORGIVEABLE.

Broadly, this is correct.

 

[jabba the gut]

Must have been Jabba : he likes looking up big words in the dictionary

I've always been painfully aware that it's never a very good idea to overestimate the intelligence of a member of the exeweb lunatic fringe. However I never suspected that some of you were quite so dim that you were completely unable to conceive of the possibility that somebody could possibly expand their vocabulary by actually reading a book every now and again, instead of looking up words in a dictionary. Still, as Chris Rock might have said, it's pretty obvious that books are like kryptonite to you lot.

Indo; given that you appear to be stuck at the level of Chicken Licken, please allow me to try and expand your vocabularly, although I realise it won't be easy.

Don't be afraid - it's really not that scary once you get used to it. Free your mind and your ass will follow.


From that good old Miriam-Webster Dictionary.


pet·ty

adjective \ˈpe-tē\

pet·ti·erpet·ti·est

Definition of PETTY

...: having little or no importance or significance

Examples of PETTY

a petty argument about grammar

My behavior was petty and stupid. I apologize. (I won't hold my breath).


child·ish

adjective \ˈchī(-ə)l-dish\

Definition of CHILDISH

1: of, relating to, or befitting a child or childhood

2 a : marked by or suggestive of immaturity and lack of poise <a childish spiteful remark>...

c : deteriorated with age especially in mind : senile

— child·ish·ly adverb

— child·ish·ness noun

...Examples of CHILDISH.

... We're tired of their childish games.

I find his humor very childish. (You and me both).


While I'm gratified to find that I haven't lost my touch and can still get under some people's skin, to the extent they can't resist making pathetic off-topic jibes when I haven't even posted on a thread, it's even more tedious than all the anti-Tisdale ranting for those who want to read or participate in a proper debate. For that reason this is going to be my only response to this ongoing nonsense. If you and the likes of malcolm want to waste your time on this kind of utter stupidity, then knock yourself out.

 

[RaeUK]

Erm, whilst I quite enjoy your posts, Jabba, could I perhaps suggest that you drop the Merriam-Webster dictionary in favour of the good old Oxford English? I appreciate the former is plastered all over the innernet but, to be honest, it's not a patch on Oxford. Apart from that, of course, Noah Webster was the chap primarily responsible for the diverging of the English language with 'American English' and all those accursed spellings befouling the place.

 

[RaeUK]

^^^ hmm. That sounds personal on review. Not meant that way, of course. It's just that, you know, let's at least keep things English English ...

 

[jabba the gut]

If one manager says "just another game" and the other manager treats the Devon derby as one of the biggest games of the season then straight away one team's mentality and hunger is going to give them an advantage.

You're so right.

As you and others have so astutely pointed out, only a clueless, passionless, talentless PE teacher like Tisdale could have so abjectly failed to motivate his players that they took the field not giving a toss, deciding it might be a hilarious practical joke to humiliate the lot of us just for the hell of it. It clearly wasn't possible that a few players simply had a horrendous day at the office - possibly as a result of not having played much recently - and that the resulting draining away of confidence spread like a virus throughout the team (with a couple of exceptions like Baldwin and Artur, who doesn't appear to have an unconfident bone in his body, thank God).

This curious phenomenon, known as "losing it mentally" in some circles, was of course manifest in some of the poor home performances earlier in the season. It is an interesting and rare condition, that had never been seen before in the entire history of football prior to the managerial career of Paul Tisdale. It's partly due to the fact that when one of his teams has to be rebuilt to a significant extent, it takes time for the large number of new recruits to gel. As a general rule other managers can get 11 strangers up and running pronto and win the league by March.

It's incredibly frustrating for us fans though. If only Tisdale could find it within himself to conjure up a bit of stirring cod-Churchillian rhetoric from a period two decades before most of his players' parents were even born - the sort of thing the likes of Pep Guardiola and Pellegrini are know for - we could have finished the season unbeaten in away games, instead of merely breaking a record that has stood for over a hundred years. Why, oh why, oh why can't he learn from legendary figures like Kenny Dalglish, who said in 2011,


“People say (Liverpool v Manchester United) is the biggest game of the season...but I don’t look at any game as being big or small,”.“It’s another game, another three points for a win....”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8824563/Liverpool-manager-Kenny-Dalglish-says-Manchester-United-game-is-nothing-special.html

Of course this no-mark excuse for a football legend, who played in many Old Firm derbies, managed in the East Lancashire, Tyne-Tees, and Tyne-Wear derbies and played AND managed in many North-West and Merseyside derbies as well, really meant to say, "any game except the mahoosive SuperMagnificoScorchioClassico that is Exeter City v Plymouth Argyle".


His successor at Liverpool, Brendan Rodgers, may not yet have earned the status of King Kenny, but even he is clever enough to know that a Swansea v Cardiff fixture, when the two rivals are first and third in the Championship, is as naught compared to the world famous Devon Derby.

"(The derby is) fantastic for the fans, but as a team and manager you have to prepare just like any other game."

http://www.planetswans.co.uk/article/view/Rodgers-Im-Really-Looking-Forward-To-It#1H6fDv676OHtrZcx.99

(Of course, if only he'd thought to treat it as a special game they might have won it 2-0 instead of only 1-0).

Commiserations must go to his defeated opponent Dave Jones, who despite having missed out on a South Coast derby while managing Southampton in the Premier League, had enough experience as a player in the Merseyside derby to know that you can treat all other derbies with a level of contempt you would never dream of doing when the prize of bragging rights over the Cornish is at stake. He echoed the above opinion of his managerial rival, stating:

"It's the same preparation as for any other game."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/9156991.stm


Now as I say, those kinds of games are small fry compared to ECFC v Plymouth, so you'd expect them to say that. However it's when you get to the really big games, with legendary managers who really know their stuff about how to motivate players on the top occasions that the tough get going. Here's what Gary Mills said about Brian Clough's approach in the run-up to Nottingham Forest's first European Cup win at the Bernabeu.

"...We partied for a week. We didn't do any training...We were so relaxed. It was treated just like any other game...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1280305/When-Cloughie-ruled-Madrid-Nottingham-Forest.html

Just think what might have happened if only Clough had subjected the Forest side to some rousing, tub-thumping, Churchillian, "we-shall-fight-them-in-the-penalty-area" rhetoric and sent them on to the field wound up like a spring and pumping their chests in fury. (Yeah, Malmo might have won).


However it's when you get to the real behemoths, those games that shine above all others, those feasts of colour, noise and passion that light up the eyes of children everywhere and make the heart of every football fan beat just that little bit faster that you begin to see the difference treating the game like a special occasion can make to the result.

We all know that Buckle is a total waste of space, who prefers boffing Rebecca Lowe of an evening to catching up on DVDs of Churchill's speech to the House Of Commons in 1940. Therefore it was no surprise to hear him completely fail to understand the importance of a Devon Derby in December of 2007.

"Just Like Any Other Game for Buckle ; Torquay United Manager Paul Buckle Will Not Allow Personal Issues to Play Any Part in the Build-Up to Boxing Day's First Blue Square Premier Devon Derby of the Season Against His Old Club Exeter City at St. James' Park"

"Torquay United manager Paul Buckle (said)... "It's not about Exeter for us - our goal is different.""

http://herald-express.vlex.co.uk/vid/buckle-allow-issues-boxing-square-76363081

Perhaps if Buckle had not been a Home Counties pantywaist and had actually played in Devon for a few years, he might have known the first thing about the critical importance of Southwest derbies. Then maybe he'd have got Chris Robertson, Toddy and Zebrowski fired up to such an extent that they could never have been handed their backsides on a plate by Mackie and the mighty Sir Rob of Edwards.

It takes the likes of a true motivator and leader of men like John Sheridan to know exactly what it takes to send troops onto the field of battle in the most important game of all. Just read his stirring words in the run up to the cataclysmic events of Easter Saturday.

“It’s just like any other game in my eyes,”...“I know the importance of the game...three points and where it can hopefully take us."

http://www.pafc.co.uk/fixtures-results/match-preview/?matchid=3520020&tcmuri=203266


One day, the exeweb anti-tisdale exeweb lunatic fringe will actually bother to check their facts. Tragically I expect that moment of triumph to be in vain, given that the earth will crash violently into the sun a split second later.

 

[jabba the gut]

A derby game with Argyle is NOT "just another game"..........it NEVER has been...........and it NEVER will be...

Exactly right. So it's good that Tisdale never said it was. He chose to treat us like adults and tell us what was on his mind (which was pretty stupid given the tendency to mass hysteria among some of our fans) i.e should he take the approach that many, many great managers have taken to derbies and treat them no differently than any other game, so that they reamin clear-headed, but are not as galvanised as they might be? Or should he instead fire the players up into a frenzy of chest-beating and snarling and run the risk that the players will make reckless decisions? Both approachers have yielded success and both have yielded failure.

Until you understand that, we will perform poorly in the vast majority of them.

You're entitled to your opinion. There's no evidence to support it though.

I have, in the (20 years) since, been subjected to displays...that have left me depressed, dismayed and disbelieving that my club could send out a team in THE derby game that matters, with such a lack of fight and seemingly such a lack of understanding about what this fixture means to the fans of this club...

How do you know it was down to "lack of understanding about what the fixture means"? I would expect that it's commonplace for footballers to be unaware of the importance of local derbies when they move somewhere unfamiliar, especially if that derby takes place in the footballing back of beyond that is Devon. I doubt that all of them play badly simply because of that fact. After all it was Peter Reid who expressed his surprise that the Devon Derby was so intense - AFTER he lost to us. I venture to suggest that he knows a bit about football rivalry, given where he comes from and who he played for.

Yesterday was another display that left me so ****ing angry I could scream.

I wasn't too ecstatic about it myself. In fact I spent three hours walking around Plymouth, trying to tire myself out so I wouldn't dwell on it all the way home. Unfortunately I forgot what Plymouth is like. Not the ideal place to make anyone feel at peace to be fair.

for the last few years, WE HAVE HAD THE BETTER TEAM AND HAVE STILL LOST...

We've won twice though. Only once in the League admittedly.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE, QUITE SIMPLY, WANTED IT MORE THAN US...

I venture to suggest that the flu epidemic two years ago at HP may have been a tad to blame. We even had players on the field who should have been in bed, or so I was told. And then there was Matt Taylor, who was just coming back from a long-standing back problem IIRC and didn't play well. I thought it must have been due to the effects of the injury, but I guess he just wasn't ars*d. Always was that sort of player, our Matty.

... I can NEVER forgive a lack of effort, or losing to them because they are up for the fight and we are not.

They barely had a meaningful shot on target (as opposed to powder-puff efforts included in the stats, that had no chance of going in unless Artur had made a Bristol Rovers-style error). They had roughly similar possession and fewer bookings and fouls IIRC. I didn't notice any great fist-pumping desire from them. In fact they made a lot of errors - although admittedly not as many as we did - and were quite timid themselves in the early part of the game. They did a decent job closing down the supply from Woodman to Cureton and denying Cureton the space to make the run off the defender's shoulder by not getting dragged up the pitch, so props to Sheridan there.

In the end they won the game with a bit of brilliance out of nowhere, scored at one of the worst possible times, from a player Sheridan claimed "did nothing all game". I think that was a little harsh, although I'd agree that there was zero evidence that he "wanted it more", as opposed to having more innate talent than a lot of players on display. Talented players, playing against fourth tier sides, will hurt them every now and again. This "wanted it more" canard seems to often be used in our country when fans and pundits are merely bewildered about what went wrong.

Read my first line again - this fixture is NOT "just another game"...

Nevertheless many managers treat it like that.

it's how Argyle have played it every season we have met them since we last won there in 1993...

We hadn't met them for a long time, until Tisdale - not least because we hadn't been in the same division until he got us up. The last time we played them prior to that they were so much better than us that in all likelihood they could have won however they chose to approach the game. In any case they certainly didn't treat it as a special game this year, unless Sheridan himself is telling fibs.

and it will be another 20 years (or more) until we win there again, unless YOU Mr Tisdale, instil some drive and belief into our players at Gnome Park that they have to earn the right to win there.

I somehow doubt that Tisdale will be here for twenty years. Regardless of who is in charge, I don't think our record is going to depend on "who wants it more", or any other football cliches of that ilk, so much as who has the better players, fewer injuries and is in better form at the time.