The Serious Torquay Thread

[Nigel E]

I had a quick look at their finances in this post two and a half years ago when the club owed just over £3M to the "parent" company at the end of March 2020. The losses have been stemmed a bit, as the debt pile to the end of March 2022 was about £3.6M. So from losing approximately £900K a year, that had slowed to about £300K a year.

It will be interesting to see what the position is for the year end to March 2023, which will cover a complete year of normal business. Those accounts are due to be filed by the end of next month.

The March 2023 accounts for Riviera Stadium Limited - the "parent" company used by Clarke Osborne (the Gulls' owner) to finance the club - were filed recently and the company is now owed £4,567,000 by Torquay United. So now we're back into fully post-Covid operations the club has reverted back to burning a bit over £900K per annum of the owner's money every year.

I also had a very quick look at the accounts for Torquay United Association Football Club, which operates to a March year end, so the latest accounts are only available up to June 2022 (the ones to June 2023 are due to be filed within the next two months). As at June 2022, the club's total debt amounted to an eye-watering £6,012,063 as that includes bank loans of £633,648 (increased by about £300K during the year). It beats me why *any* bank would almost double a company's loan facility when the accounts look like this.

The rest of the debt appears to be made up of trade creditors, tax/social security and "other" creditors.

Operational losses for the year are given as being £1,189,552.

I'm not particularly well-versed at reading accounts but I know a train wreck when I see one. You have to wonder how long this can go on. Even if I was a rich as Clarke Osborne seems to be, I don't think I'd be happy continuing to fund this sh*tshow for much longer.

 

[DB9]

The March 2023 accounts for Riviera Stadium Limited - the "parent" company used by Clarke Osborne (the Gulls' owner) to finance the club - were filed recently and the company is now owed £4,567,000 by Torquay United. So now we're back into fully post-Covid operations the club has reverted back to burning a bit over £900K per annum of the owner's money every year.

I also had a very quick look at the accounts for Torquay United Association Football Club, which operates to a March year end, so the latest accounts are only available up to June 2022 (the ones to June 2023 are due to be filed within the next two months). As at June 2022, the club's total debt amounted to an eye-watering £6,012,063 as that includes bank loans of £633,648 (increased by about £300K during the year). It beats me why *any* bank would almost double a company's loan facility when the accounts look like this.

The rest of the debt appears to be made up of trade creditors, tax/social security and "other" creditors.

Operational losses for the year are given as being £1,189,552.

I'm not particularly well-versed at reading accounts but I know a train wreck when I see one. You have to wonder how long this can go on. Even if I was a rich as Clarke Osborne seems to be, I don't think I'd be happy continuing to fund this sh*tshow for much longer.

With being full time in the NLS, Hoping like last time it will get them promoted seemed to be their only focus but as the table says they're about 14 points? off Yeovil who are top it looks like a play off place is their best bet but the consistency they had last time in the NLS is not there. If they fail to go up then it could be a right clusterfuc and surely not have the money to keep full time for another season?

 

[Devon Red]

I'm sad enough to have watched a recent Torquay fans forum on youtube. Clarke Osborne, 2 other directors and Gary Johnson were the panel.

Clarke Osborne said that they have no intention of going part time, even if they don't go up.

Whether he can be believed is another matter.

 

[DB9]

I'm sad enough to have watched a recent Torquay fans forum on youtube. Clarke Osborne, 2 other directors and Gary Johnson were the panel.

Clarke Osborne said that they have no intention of going part time, even if they don't go up.

Whether he can be believed is another matter.

With the figures Nigel E have laid out, They might not have any choice. There can't be much money outside of gate receipts and game sponsorship etc in the NLS, We get a pittance in TV money and further down the pyramid must even more woeful?

 

[andrew p long]

I'm sad enough to have watched a recent Torquay fans forum on youtube. Clarke Osborne, 2 other directors and Gary Johnson were the panel.

Clarke Osborne said that they have no intention of going part time, even if they don't go up.

Whether he can be believed is another matter.

Kidderminster Harriers remained full time in National League North for 8 consecutive seasons until (temporary?) promotion back to the National League.

 

[BigBanker]

With the figures Nigel E have laid out, They might not have any choice. There can't be much money outside of gate receipts and game sponsorship etc in the NLS, We get a pittance in TV money and further down the pyramid must even more woeful?

I'd be getting nervous if I was one of their suppliers. Payment up front please.

 

[Devon Red]

Kidderminster Harriers remained full time in National League North for 8 consecutive seasons until (temporary?) promotion back to the National League.

That's incredible. I wonder if their accounts were as gloomy as Torquay's though?

 

[Nigel E]

Torquay lost money hand over fist whatever division they were in, so I'd see promotion back to the National League as being a bit academic in relation to their finances. Some aspects of being in the NLS will be cheaper - e.g. travel, and player wage expectations.

There are two things that really matter here.

Firstly, the owner's main money-making business will have to continue providing him with lots of spare cash. Clarke Osborne's principal venture recently appears to have been housing development in the vicinity of the Swindon dog track. I simply don't know how long that is scheduled to continue to generate enough spare money for him to burn on Torquay United.

The obvious other key issue is whether Osborne can see any prospect of getting any of his £4.5M+ back from some kind of property deal involving Plainmoor. Given the ground is owned by the Council, and there isn't a particularly obvious alternative location for a new stadium, I just don't see how that can be made to work. I suppose he could try to hold the Council to ransom by threatening to pull the plug on the Club unless some kind of favourable deal is struck that enables him to build houses on Plainmoor. But especially with local authority finance the way it is, it's hard to see that being allowed to happen.

And in some ways, the prospect of the club being liquidated and having to start a "phoenix" club is much less of a threat when you're already down as low as the NLS. There are plenty of clubs that have boomeranged back to that level quite quickly after their previous entity went bust.

 

[SaintJames]

The club is beyond insolvent. The gates whilst good for NLS level arent even sustainable at Conference level and why the owner keeps on losing money hand over fist I have no idea. Surely if they dont go up this season they will go bust?

 

[Egg]

Make of this what you will, although I'm not sure too many searching questions are asked – Jim Parker might have had you believe Russell and Lewis were doing their best for Exeter City:

Exclusive: Clarke Osborne - 'why I am backing Gary, Torquay United and Torbay'

Torbay Weekly editor Jim Parker chats to the Torquay United owner

www.torbayweekly.co.uk