Ground redevelopment?

[Terryhall]

The point you are missing is that the Trust should be dictating to Tisdale what we spend money on rather than the way it actually happens. And yes I do blame the Trust for allowing Tisdale and the Club to get away with it.

You also seem to be obsessed with the away end. However the money applied to the 3G pitch could have been employed in far more productive ways like(as I mentioned before) the purchase of the freehold of SJP or towards the redevelopment of the St. James' Centre/Fountains Centre and car park area. That in turn, in combination with an appropriate enabling scheme, would not only provide further immediate ground/hospitality improvements but also generate future additional off field income. This would provide the stable financial base that the Club so desperately needs.

You seem to be moving the goalposts to suit your argument here RW. Earlier DM was posting about the away end - I responded in turn and now you bring in a whole host of other priorities as well. Would you agree however that one such possible use of funds would be to improve the training facilities for the club?

The Trust is getting a short term and mid term business plan for the club - the AGM motions and latest minutes confirm that. And, within the last 2 months, the Trust has put in place a governance agreement with the club confirming exactly what the club can and cannot do without Trust approval.

So it looks like all of your concerns are actually fixed by recent Trust Board activity - and in the absence of a time machine, I'm not sure what else could be expected.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Fareham Grecian]

You seem to be moving the goalposts to suit your argument here RW.

SURELY NOT. How very dare you.

 

[rightwing]

You seem to be moving the goalposts to suit your argument here RW. Earlier DM was posting about the away end - I responded in turn and now you bring in a whole host of other priorities as well. Would you agree however that one such possible use of funds would be to improve the training facilities for the club?

The Trust is getting a short term and mid term business plan for the club - the AGM motions and latest minutes confirm that. And, within the last 2 months, the Trust has put in place a governance agreement with the club confirming exactly what the club can and cannot do without Trust approval.

So it looks like all of your concerns are actually fixed by recent Trust Board activity - and in the absence of a time machine, I'm not sure what else could be expected.

Did I miss anything?

And you honestly think that the Trust will get down to controlling the hard core business of the Club? My 7 years of experience on the Trust Board tells me otherwise. More might have been achieved had additional reformers been elected but I'm in no doubt that the status quo will prevail and we'll get the usual rhetoric but with very little effective additional control.

 

[Fareham Grecian]

And you honestly think that the Trust will get down to controlling the hard core business of the Club? My 7 years of experience on the Trust Board tells me otherwise. More might have been achieved had additional reformers been elected but I'm in no doubt that the status quo will prevail and we'll get the usual rhetoric but with very little effective additional control.

So you achieved absolutely nothing in 7 years? Well done.

 

[DanceMagnet]

So are you seriously saying that as a professional football club, you'd rather that ECFC spend 100k a year on renting access to someone else's training facility, rather than spending the same amount on having our own training facility and maintaining it? Seriously?

And not only that, but that upgrading the away end of the ground is more important and better investment for the club? Seriously?

Terry, I was asked about the cost of the Uni pitch was, so I answered to the best of my knowledge nothing more. My main point was to question Denzil's so-called "obvious" economics regarding a 3G pitch and the planned Cat 2 status, but still await any evidence of a business case from him or anyone else for that matter.

Whether the away end should be top priority is debatable, but I have to admit it does irk me that we seem to be an academy first and a football club second. At the end of the day, without the football club there is no academy. Relegation to the National League would kill those ambitions. I just think the priorities are just plain wrong. Of course, I would like the club to develop its facilities but it has to be sustainable. Are you absolutely convinced it is? I'm not.

 

[oldschool]

A win today in the cup and another 18k towards the tisdale gates with a Latin inscription of football genius at work will be installed at the cat and fiddle.

 

[Mackster]

Providing the club have done their homework, a 3G training pitch should be a priority.

Maidstone earn £100k-£150K per year from renting their 3G pitch and if we can save money by not having to rent a winter training facility, I can't see what the objection is. At worst it would be revenue neutral, done well and it could bring in extra revenue season after season.

http://http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/the-weekend-dossier-plastic-has-proved-fantastic-as-maidstone-make-strong-pitch-for-an-artificial-10186129.html

 

[Antony Moxey]

Really? What are they?

From my understanding, the 3G pitch is going to cost £650k. Reading this...

http://www.footballfoundation.org.uk/_resources/assets/attachment/full/0/22846.pdf

It will generally last 10 years before it will need replacing. During which time, it will require annual maintenance, circa £25k per annum. This document also suggests another near £8k per annum for floodlighting costs. Then, after 5-6 years the pitch is likely to incur additional costs for rejuvenation. Let's guess at a conservative £50k. Over the 10 year lifespan, a total cost of around £1m, or on average £100k per year. All this for a club that was going to the PFA, cap in hand, for a loan not that long ago.

I'm not sure exactly of the overall costs for a Cat 2 Academy, but I did find reference from 2012 to £500k per annum for Cat 3 and £2.3m for category 1. Cat 2 will be somewhere in between. As I have posted before, I think Crewe have suggested an annual cost of £1.3m whereby the club itself is having to find £700k. They announced more than £1m losses for the last financial year. Hence, there are considerable pressures on the acamdemy to realise an income from transfers for which there are no guarantees. Overall, I see this venture as a massive risk.

Aside from that, and despite the massive improvements in the quality of artificial pitches, there are still clear concerns regarding injuries.

To be perfectly honest, if the club is intent on going down this route regardless, I would suggest that the indoor facility should have taken priority as this would provide a truly all year round facility.

All of that sounds like a massive, massive exaggeration. Most of the secondary schools in and around Exeter have 3G pitches - ECFC's Academy players train once a week on the one at Cranbrook - and they haven't cost anything like £650k to install and £25k to maintain. The maintenance aspect especially isn't even a tenth of that.

 

[Antony Moxey]

The point you are missing is that the Trust should be dictating to Tisdale what we spend money on rather than the way it actually happens. And yes I do blame the Trust for allowing Tisdale and the Club to get away with it.

You also seem to be obsessed with the away end. However the money applied to the 3G pitch could have been employed in far more productive ways like(as I mentioned before) the purchase of the freehold of SJP or towards the redevelopment of the St. James' Centre/Fountains Centre and car park area. That in turn, in combination with an appropriate enabling scheme, would not only provide further immediate ground/hospitality improvements but also generate future additional off field income. This would provide the stable financial base that the Club so desperately needs.

Of course this assumes that the freehold is available for purchase at market value. Of course you'll now list a number of clubs that have bought their freeholds from their local authority but this is ECC we're talking about so examples of what other clubs and their local authorities have done/are doing are utterly irrelevant. If the council ain't selling, and there's never been any indication that they've ever been willing to, then it's a moot argument.

Personally I think if someone genuinely can't see how a decent all weather pitch outweighs the need for that money being spent on a sparsely used area of the ground then there's little worth engaging in a discussion about it as they'll never see it.

 

[DanceMagnet]

If they need a 3g training pitch, maybe they should get one in the Bristol area to save all the travelling.