UK Lockdown

[Legohead]

I agree with Paul about Cheltenham. It was clearly obvious during that last week before lockdown that something pretty catastrophic was happening around the globe and had hit Britain, and personally speaking anybody who didn't have a sense of this and thought it a good idea to be jostling with 70,000 others at a packed racecourse is a *****.

 

[IndoMike]

I'm not desperately trying to do anything

I just want people to follow the rules and the laws, whether or not they agree with said rules and laws, and whether or not they feel they have just cause not to follow them. And I don't think it is unreasonable to call people out for not following them.

That goes for Cummins, Kinnock, Jenrick, the Scottish doctor whose name escapes me, the Met on Westminster Bridge (who Hermann rightly reminded us of), the thousands at Durdle Door, and the hundreds of thousands now protesting around the country.

I called the people who went to Cheltenham idiots as regardless of the advice at that point in time, the virus was palpably spreading on our doorstep in Europe and plonking yourself in the midst of a 70,000 crowd seemed not the most sensible decision.

I agree the Gov should have cancelled it, and that the guidance then was wrong. But again as Al said, 2 wrongs don't make a right.

No. Two wrongs don't make a right, but if we criticise the second wrong we should also remember the first one.
And the first one sets a precedent for the second one.
I don't believe in anarchy because I've seen the consequences of it, but I repeat if we had leaders that the people respected then people might be more willing to respond .
Let's be honest : the rules, implementation and adherence to the STAY HOME, social distancing et al have been broken by many members of society, even by those who created the rules

 

[IndoMike]

I agree with Paul about Cheltenham. It was clearly obvious during that last week before lockdown that something pretty catastrophic was happening around the globe and had hit Britain, and personally speaking anybody who didn't have a sense of this and thought it a good idea to be jostling with 70,000 others at a packed racecourse is a *****.

But if the Govt didn't cancel it surely the message was "it's safe to attend" . The ball was in the Govt's court.

 

[Rosencrantz]

Of course, but the timing is not just not ideal, it is utterly appalling.

You mentioned Grenfell. That was a much clearer example of embedded racism in British society but didn't cause anything like this scale of protest - at a time of otherwise non-crisis.

I used Grenfell as an example of the government (Rees-Mogg's) contempt and inability to apologise but it has added to the feelings around this protest. As has Steven Lawrence and other cases. It has been a drip feed of injustice that has now been sparked. Not just here but in Australia as well. It's an example of injustices that keep on stacking up and the dam has now burst.

 

[Legohead]

But if the Govt didn't cancel it surely the message was "it's safe to attend" . The ball was in the Govt's court.

I agree but anybody with half a brain knew it wasn't safe to attend and a lockdown was pretty much upon us. We had a virus spreading through the UK. Schools were closing. GP's surgeries were closing due to Covid and yet idiots still thought it was OK to go racing.

 

[RedPaul]

No. Two wrongs don't make a right, but if we criticise the second wrong we should also remember the first one.
And the first one sets a precedent for the second one.
I don't believe in anarchy because I've seen the consequences of it, but I repeat if we had leaders that the people respected then people might be more willing to respond .
Let's be honest : the rules, implementation and adherence to the STAY HOME, social distancing et al have been broken by many members of society, even by those who created the rules

The first wrong does not set a precedent in this case. The first wrong was not locking down / cancelling Cheltenham etc
That wrong has been rectified by the lockdown rules that have existed since 23rd March and been loosened a little since; too much for some, not enough for others.

STAY HOME was very successful. People did, to a much bigger extent than was thought. People were terrified - we have discussed elsewhere the terrible toll of non-Covd deaths that have significantly risen too.

These protests are, IMHO, essentially anti-Trump protests. I can't stand the guy either but that is what is at the absolute heart of it.

Right it has gone midnight in Blighty so time to go to bed. Let's see what sense tomorrow brings.

 

[IndoMike]

The first wrong does not set a precedent in this case. The first wrong was not locking down / cancelling Cheltenham etc
That wrong has been rectified by the lockdown rules that have existed since 23rd March and been loosened a little since; too much for some, not enough for others.

STAY HOME was very successful. People did, to a much bigger extent than was thought. People were terrified - we have discussed elsewhere the terrible toll of non-Covd deaths that have significantly risen too.

These protests are, IMHO, essentially anti-Trump protests. I can't stand the guy either but that is what is at the absolute heart of it.

Right it has gone midnight in Blighty so time to go to bed. Let's see what sense tomorrow brings.

Ok. I have a busy day ahead of me. Continue later

 

[Rosencrantz]

These protests are, IMHO, essentially anti-Trump protests. I can't stand the guy either but that is what is at the absolute heart of it.

Trump and other authoritarian leaders don't help, they can (and in Trump's case do) inflame the problem. But to write these protests off as essentially anti-Trump is unworthy. The message is pretty clear and go much further than Trump.

'Night RP.

 

[IndoMike]

Trump and other authoritarian leaders don't help, they can (and in Trump's case do) inflame the problem. But to write these protests off as essentially anti-Trump is unworthy. The message is pretty clear and go much further than Trump.

'Night RP.

Agree.
Racism is hardly something new.
The murder of George Floyd was the final straw. Those who care are just not prepared to take it any more. Trump is a symptom, but with or without Trump the mistreatment or worse of black people and ethnic minorities will continue if not stopped.
It is true that racism is more extreme in the US, but it would be naive to think it doesn't exist in the UK

 

[Alistair20000]

.
"Many" were not anarchistic. A small minority were
I'm not ducking and weaving. You"re just refusing to take what I said at face value.
Do you want me to keep repeating the same thing over and over again?
I have already quite clearly explained my position, although I think Rosey has explained more eloquently and in better detail.
Let's ask you some questions.
Do you think racism is acceptable, and if not, how do we eradicate it?

No I do not think racism is acceptable at all.

I regret to say that if you think it can be eradicated you are looking for one of Elgy's Unicorns. There will always be people with prejudices of all sorts out there including racists.

You can try to educate people of course and pass and enforce appropriate laws but the protesters did not set a particularly good example on that front did they ?