How long can the club punch above its weight?

[Grecian Max]

Not a big fan of the negativity being shown by this thread!

He's a Palace fan! What have they got to look forward to?

Getting done by Exeter City next season. Twice.

 

[Poultice]

He's a Palace fan! What have they got to look forward to?

Getting done by Exeter City next season. Twice.

You 'avin' a tin mate ?

Us up, them down, Deano back home cos we are the bigger club, sorted.

 

[John William]

"

The squad is stronger this season.......................thiis will see two or three of them get extended runs in the side where they will show their worth"



You do know, don't you, that this is one of them factoids that is made up entirely of your own mind's fiction? How can the squad be stronger when you've lost so many decent players?

I don't fully agree with Poults but it's a defensible point of view. I do think we need another striker but otherwise the squad is certainly OK and may turn out to be better overall. Stewart retiring means Tis is no longer tempted to bring him on, and the fringe players like Thompson and Norwood have moved on. So while the best 11 may not be quite as strong on paper, the balance and energy may be higher across the 22.

Also, it is by no mean certain that Cureton will have another season like the last, all past experience says this is unlikely.

Moreover, Taylor was still suffering from his back injury and looked off the pace; he contributed little last season. He may recover and be an asset for Charlton but again on the evidence this is far from certain.

Harley is IMO nothing like as indispensible as some think and if Bauza is as good as reputed will be a good replacement; he certainly seems unlikely to disappear for 15 minutes at a time as Harley is wont to do.

The other main squad players are mostly of an age where they are still improving, especially Troy, Golbourne, Dunne, Sercombe. Nardiello and Noble seem to be entirely recovered from bad injury runs. The weakest link may now be Tully.

Added to the view emerging that several younger players are ready to move up and I think the future is bright, provided we do make that forward signing.

Not sure I agree with the premise of the OP anyway. I know Tis and Perryman keep trotting out this mantra but, objectively, I'm not sure clubs have a "weight" to punch above or below.

It's simple, IMO; if over a couple of seasons you are consistently in the top half of league 1 club, that IS your weight at that time. Analyses based on population of the city and historic factors can only take you so far. The leagues are littered with clubs which feel the "belong" or "deserve to be" higher up than they are; balls, if you don't win the games you'll drop down. End of.

By the bye, as a kid I watched Palace regularly for over 10 years in the 60s and early 70s, fitfully for a decade or so thereafter; although they went up and down they were always basically a second tier club, and we knew it. The heady days in the First Division / PL in the nineties / noughties were the exception not the rule, as evidenced by the frequent relegations and promotions. I still look out for their results every week and am glad they stayed up last season but if their fans moan because they think they "belong" higher, then they are in fantasy land; if anything, they were "punching above their weight" when they were in the top flight.

 

[Ace Pal Exeter]

Are you really this thick ?

The squad is the sum of all its parts, your assertion was that we should be starting the season weaker, at the start of last season we had Jonesy in goal, Taylor was injured and looked like he might not return, Cureton was an old gimp that we were taking a punt on, Troy had spent most of the previous season on the sick, Noble resembled Mr. Blobby, BJ was a first choice central defender, Nards was living up to his nickname of glass, none of our youngsters looked even close to good enough for the first team and Stewart was still a player.

This season we seem to be pretty much injury free, we have kept the bulk of the squad which closed out last season so well, our crocks have had a full season and a pre to get up to speed, the kids are now being spoken of as being in the frame, Sercs, Troy and Dunny will have matured, Nobby and Nards should start the season fit, they are two class players who along with Bowzer should be able to take up most of the slack lost with Harley, Cureton's goals are a loss but strikers are streaky and there was never any guarantee that such an old guy could do two in a row, besides I rate O'Flynn and people who's view I trust tell me Nicholls could be the real deal.

But other than all that there is not much to suggest we might kick on, no guarantees of course, but having seen the early season performance at Orient where we looked like the team had been lifted out of the E&D Sunday League, I am prepared to state in as categoric way possible that it is my firm belief that we are in a far better position to start this season than we were the last, better players in a better team as a part of a stronger squad, if you don't agree that is your prerogative, why anybody would care what what some Sarf Landan reject thought escapes me, but as I say, everybody has the right to be stupid, some do abuse that privilege but hey, "it's all about opinions la'"(c. Credy).

Good post - apart from the bits where you are being a tw@t. That morsel makes a lot of sense. I agree with you about O'Flynn and the injury situation and the possibility of talented youngsters. Not set in stone though, is it? What is set in stone, however, is that the two most effective players last season have left. And you still think the squad is better? Doh!

 

[ExeterCitysRealDeal]

"

The squad is stronger this season.......................thiis will see two or three of them get extended runs in the side where they will show their worth"



You do know, don't you, that this is one of them factoids that is made up entirely of your own mind's fiction? How can the squad be stronger when you've lost so many decent players?

The thing is who are the 'many decent players?' that you talk of? To my thinking the only players that have left us this close season that made any impact to first team picture last season are Curro, Harley, Taylor (although not fit for most of the season so not much of an impact really) and possibly Jones. The rest made little to no impact at all last season, with only Sir Rob although a club legend, hardly featuring at all towards the end of the season and will be replaced in this role by the kids like Bennett, Keane etc.

To replace Taylor we have brought in Coles who has far more League experience and at a higher level than Taylor, about the same age too. We have replaced Harley with Bauza who again has played at a higher level than Harley has atm although obviously Harley's boots are massive to fill and he will do well take full responsibility for replacing RH himself. Jones has been replaced by big Lenny who again has loads more league experience than Jonah again at a higher level. Get the recurring theme? Curro is the only player we 'CURRENTLY' haven't replaced with a like for like replacement although I honestly believe a combination of O'Flynn kicking on a lot from last season with getting a more playing time as the Fox in box ala Curro and Nards having more starting game time will cover the loss of Curro's goals. The young lads like Dunne (if he stays), Sercombe, Goldbourne, THA and to a certain extent Duffy will be better players this season than last from the experience alone + the fact they should be getting stronger with age esp Sercs. Noble will improve again this season and hopefully get back to the level he was at before his injuries when he was one of the top midfielder's in the Championship.

So all in all I honestly believe that this squad apart from losing extra numbers of non active first team players is at least equal to last seasons and with the addition of 1 or hopefully 2 first team ready players is more than capable of kicking on again from last season and sneaking into the playoffs this year. Also don't forget that TIS himself will be better this season as a manager from another years League 1 management experience and that shouldn't be taken lightly in itself....

 

[Ace Pal Exeter]

Not being funny 'Pal', but the size of our club clearly shows that League 1 is where we belong. We have under achieved for most of our, history, for me now we are finally doing what we should have done years before.

Our model is strong enough to retain our League One place consistently.

I agree entirely. But the mindset of some (a few) of your fans is different. They are little leaguers.

 

[John William]

What is set in stone, however, is that the two most effective players last season have left. And you still think the squad is better? Doh!

Are you really incapable of realising that you can lose two important players and still have a stronger squad overall? Or just being provocative for the sake of it?

 

[Ace Pal Exeter]

Are you really incapable of realising that you can lose two important players and still have a stronger squad overall? Or just being provocative for the sake of it?

So if I said 'weaker team' would that compute better?

Ok, a weaker team. You'll have a weaker team next season.

 

[exehausted2]

For most of us City chose us, whereas Ace has chosen City. I don't think he deserves any of the insults there have been in some posts. I think he is just trying to suggest that we need all the positivity we can get and is trying to stimulate a discussion about how to get that. It wasn't just a gratuitous moan. I've certainly been frustrated by negative vibes from the crowd, the Harley incident was just a very good example.

 

[Ace Pal Exeter]

I don't fully agree with Poults but it's a defensible point of view. I do think we need another striker but otherwise the squad is certainly OK and may turn out to be better overall. Stewart retiring means Tis is no longer tempted to bring him on, and the fringe players like Thompson and Norwood have moved on. So while the best 11 may not be quite as strong on paper, the balance and energy may be higher across the 22.

Also, it is by no mean certain that Cureton will have another season like the last, all past experience says this is unlikely.

Moreover, Taylor was still suffering from his back injury and looked off the pace; he contributed little last season. He may recover and be an asset for Charlton but again on the evidence this is far from certain.

Harley is IMO nothing like as indispensible as some think and if Bauza is as good as reputed will be a good replacement; he certainly seems unlikely to disappear for 15 minutes at a time as Harley is wont to do.

The other main squad players are mostly of an age where they are still improving, especially Troy, Golbourne, Dunne, Sercombe. Nardiello and Noble seem to be entirely recovered from bad injury runs. The weakest link may now be Tully.

Added to the view emerging that several younger players are ready to move up and I think the future is bright, provided we do make that forward signing.

Not sure I agree with the premise of the OP anyway. I know Tis and Perryman keep trotting out this mantra but, objectively, I'm not sure clubs have a "weight" to punch above or below.

It's simple, IMO; if over a couple of seasons you are consistently in the top half of league 1 club, that IS your weight at that time. Analyses based on population of the city and historic factors can only take you so far. The leagues are littered with clubs which feel the "belong" or "deserve to be" higher up than they are; balls, if you don't win the games you'll drop down. End of.

By the bye, as a kid I watched Palace regularly for over 10 years in the 60s and early 70s, fitfully for a decade or so thereafter; although they went up and down they were always basically a second tier club, and we knew it. The heady days in the First Division / PL in the nineties / noughties were the exception not the rule, as evidenced by the frequent relegations and promotions. I still look out for their results every week and am glad they stayed up last season but if their fans moan because they think they "belong" higher, then they are in fantasy land; if anything, they were "punching above their weight" when they were in the top flight.

Good days. Averaging 30,000 in 1980 in top flight and even 20,000 in Division three a few years earlier. We were spoilt. And 'yes' - you are right. We belong where we are with the occasional promotion and obligatory 9-month later relegation.