DanceMagnet
Member
Clearly, not!
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The half a million pound question
- Thread starter GrecianLez
- Start date
Pete Martin (CTID)
Very well known Exeweb poster
No idea tbh. I wasn't promoting that we go for it, simply what I perceive to be needed.
The biggest issue is probably the ongoing costs (and artficial pitches only last around 10 years maximum).
Serious question - what arrangements are in place to ensure the club can continue to use the C&F, which of course it doesn't own.
If we were to spend half a mil on a plastic pitch and then the Hill family (?) decide that the club can no longer use the place, I would be rather cheesed off to say the least...
If we were to spend half a mil on a plastic pitch and then the Hill family (?) decide that the club can no longer use the place, I would be rather cheesed off to say the least...
The Club has signed a "long term lease." How long that is and what the precise terms are have not been made public. Surely if the Hill family had been generous then they wouldn't object to the terms being published? Is it then a case of the Club paying yet another high price? - like the St. James' Centre?
ExeterCitysRealDeal
Member
I get where you are coming from in that there are no gaurantees that we will constantly sell players for six figure sums but at the same time by going up to a Level 2 Academy from a Level 3 it does mean that any kids that leave before signing a pro contract or even a apprenticiship contract we will get more money for. For example with Ethan Ampadu and Jack Sparkes both likely to leave this summer for much bigger clubs we will currently get the following deals for them:
Years 9 to 11 = £3000 a year (£9000 total)
Years 12 to 16 = £12'500 a year (£62500 total)
Total Compensation = £71'500
Plus £150'000 every 10 apperances in the Premier League for the first 60 games then £100'000 every 10 apperances for the next 40 games up to 100 apperances in the Premier League. Potential Total = £1'300'000
We also get a sell on for each player
If we go up to a level 2 Academy then we get the following:
Years 9 to 11 = £3000 a year (£9000 total)
Years 12 to 16 = £25000 a year (£125'000 total)
Total Compensation = £134'000
Plus £150'000 every 10 apperances in the Premier League for the first 60 games then £100'000 every 10 apperances for the next 40 games up to 100 apperances in the Premier League. Potential Total = £1'300'000
We also get a sell on for each player
For me the point is that you hoping to produce a couple of good prospects each year on average who either go on to be sold early through the compensation scheme above (Goss/Ampadu/Sparkes) or who do a Grimes/Watkins/Nichols and sign pro terms and get sold on for a much bigger fee in time once they have performed for our 1st team for a while. If you went back over the past 6-7 years I am pretty sure we would at least average 2 good quality youngsters per year coming through our system? You also have the benefit of being able to aggressively recruit and sign the best talent from clubs in lower Category Academy’s where for example we could go to Argyle and sign their best young players without them being able to do a thing to stop us. Being a higher Category Academy would also give us a compelling 'sales story' to tell young players and their families when trying to sign the best young players in the South West. For example 'Hello little Jonny come and sign for Exeter City's Academy and you will get the best coaching and facilities in the immediate South West to develop, then when you are 16 if you work hard enough you will either sign for ECFC on apprentice or pro forms with a clear defined and proven pathway to the 1st Team to make it as a professional before potentially earning a move to a Premiership/Championship club or you might get the chance to sign for a Premiership or Championship club at 16, oh and by the way we have had a number of youth Internationals through our system already blah blah blah'.
The 1st Team also benefit from improved training facilities to hopefully improve their performance on the pitch as well as potentially increase older players transfer value in the future by coaching them to improve them for future resale i.e. the original Troy/Dunne/Goldburne etc. You would also hope that the players who come through our system who aren't quite good enough to get moves to bigger clubs would also be of a better quality than even the ones who have come through in the past 10 years which helps the 1st team as well. Also wouldn't the 3G Pitch sit as a depreciating asset on the Clubs Balance Sheet which would be a good and bad thing?
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DanceMagnet
Member
Sorry, chap, "hoping" and "I am pretty sure" don't really cut it as a business model. This is likely to cost the club around £750k a year on a gamble we may sell a couple of players to make up that outlay AND provide a profit.
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- Admin
- #57
Antony Moxey
Very well known Exeweb poster
One Grimes every two seasons or two Nichols per season to pay for it? Not going to happen is it?
ExeterCitysRealDeal
Member
Its alright 'chap' but you are also totally discounting any value that the 3G pitch will have to help improve the coaching of the 1st team to improve performance, work on pitch based tactics, set pieces attacking/defending etc, etc. By the way what you do base business models on is recent and historical business performance in the areas you are looking to invest, expand on or improve upon, look at what potential outcomes will come from investment, what threats there are and what additional opportunities the investment would give. Looking back over the past few years we have had a heck of a lot of our youth players coming through to make a number of 1st team appearances or to be sold on for a profit etc with some leaving on FREE transfers when they should have sold before for a profit. When you consider that most people would agree that players that come through at a club are often paid less than they are if they come from other clubs certainly to begin with, it is possible to allocate any saving on wages to the youth system etc when considering its benefit. Also people constantly say that we struggle to sign good quality players because of our location (personally don't agree) so if you can produce your own quality players for our 1st team who are already 'in location' then that is another benefit. There are already a few kids in our system who are going to be leaving for bigger and better things with us receiving financial compensation for them i.e. Ethan Ampadu and Jack Sparkes with there being a couple others who are likely to do the same in the next couple of years. If the improved Academy doesn't produce better results then people will have to lose their jobs as they won't be performing especially when you consider that they will have the pick in theory of the Argyle, Torquay youth team squads as well as we would have the power to just take their better prospects (subject to player agreeing) due to the Academy Category system.
Players sold for a profit from our youth system in past 10 years or so (might have missed some):
Grimes
Tom Nichols
George Friend
Danny Seabourne
Sean Goss
Dean Moxey
Mark Ellis
Jamie Hatch
Players that have played a number of 1st team games for Exeter City FC and/or currently in our squad (will have missed a lot and I know not all of them are popular or turned out amazing but they still had a value to the squad by saving the need for more expensive squad members):
Scott Bennett
Liam Sercombe
Ollie Watkins
Jamie Reid
Jordon Moore-Taylor
Christy Pym
Matt Jay
Conor Riley-Lowe
Alex Bryne
Aaron Dawson
Chris Shephard
Jake Gosling
Elliott Frear
For the record I'm not saying spend every penny on the Academy and chasing Cat 2 status as the 1st team is always the priority but with the right planning and structure in place having a better more productive academy will support and improve the 1st team and it performance over a number of years. Be that from ‘Windfalls’ or simply better players coming through and playing for our 1st team.
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GrecianInPerth
Member
Just looked other the criteria for cat 2 status and its not just about the pitches as people have suggested already. for need for example 2 classrooms available, match analysis facilities big enough to hold 20 people. The difference seems to be facilities wise anyways, a hybrid of cat 1 and cat 3 in that some things are the same as we have now like the grass training pitch requirements however some things match the cat 1 stuff. What's interesting is from a travel time from the academy point of view there is no difference between a cat 2 and a cat 3 academy. The extra costs seem to be in staffing as thing which we can contract in as required at cat 3 like sports science and medicine or a strength conditioning coach have to be full time positions in a cat 2 and above academy. Additionally you need 2 physiotherapists for the academy as well as a doctor (this could still be part with rest of the team), head of recruitment, head of eduction, performance analysts.
I can't see how its currently feasible for us to do this. However its interesting to note that Watford have a category 3 academy but much of how they do things is closer to cat 1 stuff. The criteria are only a minimum requirement not a maximum. So for example the guide state that coaching ratio for cat 2-4 academies is a 1 coach to 10 players, if you wanted to make it 1 to 8 like cat 1 academies there's nothing stopping you doing that.
I can't see how its currently feasible for us to do this. However its interesting to note that Watford have a category 3 academy but much of how they do things is closer to cat 1 stuff. The criteria are only a minimum requirement not a maximum. So for example the guide state that coaching ratio for cat 2-4 academies is a 1 coach to 10 players, if you wanted to make it 1 to 8 like cat 1 academies there's nothing stopping you doing that.