Sir Ian Blair/De Menezes

[Poultice]

Which also makes me believe that firearms duties for a serving policeman, is not as voluntary as Tavyred, would have us believe.

Firearms duty is voluntary as Tavy suggests, but from there on in he is being wholly disingenous. Scuffers do as they are told, the ARUs see themselves as an elite unit and act accordingly, they would no sooner hand in their guns than most of us would support Argyle.

The trouble with the service is not the grunts, albeit that the standard of the average Noddy has dropped dramatically over the years, the problem is the weak ass oversight of what they call the management, senior officers with degrees in all kinds of sh*t that have never felt a collar in their lives.

The stupid woman with operational responsibility for the De Menezes killing has subsequently been promoted, that in itself should have had us down the nick setting fire to it, but no, we just suck it up.

 

[angelic upstart]

The training and holding of firearms is voluntary, if you think that getting a cushty job and being part of an "elite" service that you mention, come under the word, voluntary.

I believe the word voluntary, as Jan put it, Acting or done willingly and without constraint or expectation of reward. In this instance, there is a reward, therefore, in my humble, it aint voluntary.

Essentially though, I concur with your point.

 

[Jason H]

The trouble with the service is not the grunts, albeit that the standard of the average Noddy has dropped dramatically over the years, the problem is the weak ass oversight of what they call the management, senior officers with degrees in all kinds of sh*t that have never felt a collar in their lives.

The stupid woman with operational responsibility for the De Menezes killing has subsequently been promoted, that in itself should have had us down the nick setting fire to it, but no, we just suck it up.

Funny you should mention that.

In 1983, she joined the Metropolitan Police as a Constable. In 1993, she joined the staff of the Accelerated Promotion Course at Bramshill Police College, and in 1995, joined Thames Valley Police as a Superintendent. She was Superintendent Operations at Oxford, and later, as a Chief Superintendent, served as Area Commander in Oxford for three years.

 

[angelic upstart]

She sounds like a real hero...

 

[Jason H]

I'm sure she is. But I bet she felt a collar or two over 10 years on the beat in the Met.

 

[tavyred]

I'm not wriggling from anything.

Just one last question, when we, the Great British public are told that "all leave is cancelled" are the officers that would have been on holiday, volunteering that overtime, or is it compulsory? Personally, I have no idea. Seemingly you are an oracle on the inner workings of the police service (or is it force?) so I am sure you'll be able to help. Thanks in advance.

No thanks needed!
I`m no expert, but like most jobs, the Police are either on-duty or off-duty.
If you are on-duty, you are either at work or on paid leave, so unless you go over your designated finish time you would not get any overtime payment.
If you are working on an off-duty day or possibly working past your finish time I would then suggest you then get overtime payments, and if it`s at the weekend or bank hoildays then these would be at premium rates.
The cancelling of leave on an otherwise on-duty day would be compulsory and would not incur overtime, unless there are special arrangments or financial inducements.



As regards the voluntary nature of being a firearms officer, this link explains the problems....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/met-in-crisis-as-protesting-officers-lay-down-arms-531778.html

The most pertinent part of the article is this in my view....

" All firearms officers volunteer to carry weapons and.............

There is no disciplinary sanction for quitting as a firearms officer and returning to normal duties."

 

[tavyred]

Firearms duty is voluntary as Tavy suggests, but from there on in he is being wholly disingenous. Scuffers do as they are told, the ARUs see themselves as an elite unit and act accordingly, they would no sooner hand in their guns than most of us would support Argyle.

Even Scuffers would stop doing as they were told, if they felt hard done by. More to the point, the mere threat of the Police not playing ball is enough to give the average government minister the colly-wobbles, hence generally speaking the Police are looked after and free from reform.

 

[Poultice]

Even Scuffers would stop doing as they were told, if they felt hard done by.

No they wouldn't, they would simply use the easy get out allowed by the lack of oversight, there are almost as many scuffers on the sick at one time as there are NHS'ers.

Public service = Public rip off.

The Government doesn't fear the filth going on strike, all they have to do is print more money to pay them with.

I think your argument is ass about, the scuffers won't mutiny, possibly because they don't have to, rather than because of any sense of duty, besides which who in their right mind would employ an ex-scuffer. So in effect I kinda agree with you, albeit with a differing emphasis.

 

[Antony Moxey]

What is a scuffer?

 

[Poultice]

What is a scuffer?

Welcome back Mr.Moxey.

You know what a scuffer is, and they all wear guns where you have been.