Politics Today

[Devon Red]

Just to add to Arthur's comments above, which I wholeheartedly agree with, what makes you think that leaving the EU will help control illegal immigration? Will it stop people arriving on our shores in boats and rafts?
Regarding immigration from the EU : tens of thousands of young Europeans come to the UK to work in the service industries or to start up restos and other businesses which provide employment.

You have to remember that the UK has an aging population : we need people to work and to start small businesses.

I didn't say it would control illegal immigration, I said it would control immigration. Please also don't assume that by controlling immigration means lowering it, it means choosing who and how many to take.

 

[Alistair20000]

I voted to remain, Always been open about that and i lost, I also knew in my head that if leave won then it would be out of the EU warts an all, I just don't follow this "We didn't know what we were voting for" That is patronising to say the least, It's like those in Westminster saying "There, There we know best" I also believe that since i lost i can't complain about the result, much as i do worry about things, What i do hate is that since the vote our MP's and others have been unable to come up with a decent exit plan and those in charge now are not "Men of the people" but the same elite who i wouldn't trust as far as i can throw them and are cut from the same cloth as Cameron and Co before them.

I also believe that leavers aren't racist bigots like some seem to think or that remainers are lefty remoaning traitors trying to stop the will of the people, Whilst everyone goes on about 17.4m who voted leave, the 16.2m voted to stay, Not one politician have reached out to those that oppose their view and listen to their concerns because once all this is done and dusted we still all have to live with this decision, If it goes really badly i guess there will be lots of "I told you so" and maybe even a application to rejoin the EU but as a nation we have to get through this mess.

I don't believe either in a second ref, It will solve nothing, Just anger people more and at the moment it is a toxic, Tribal atmosphere in the UK, Where MP's get threatened online, Language used in Parliament is as low as it gets but seems acceptable and the conduct of our PM can go even lower just as long as he delivers Brexit, He delivers a sh*t Brexit and he alone will be responsible.

On here we have Tavy, Jinxy etc on one side and Arthur, G2K etc on the other plus others and i read their arguments and in the most they are enjoyable reads and they all do links to things that make certain parts of Brexit understandable but i do hate it when it gets personal, That can make me wince and wish it wouldn't happen but this thing has dragged on so long it has made people more stubborn in their views and to change those views is pretty near impossible, Some comments from others though have been nasty and just untrue and I've jumped on those that have said them and will continue to do so.

So for me I wish the ref never happened but it did and the ref campaign was awful from both sides, We woke up on the 24th June 2016 and leave won, Remain lost but it seems so many wish to forget that result and think that those who voted leave will just disappear, Well i have news for you they won't

A great post.

 

[Alistair20000]

Have you thought of setting yourself up as a clairvoyant since you clearly know so much about how other people voted and why they voted as they did?

I thought Indo had done this, making a start by interviewing all those who have died since voting. FCAT rather than perdiction. All Brexiteers apparently.

 

[Alistair20000]

Traditionally, big business tends towards the Conservative Party, although surprisingly that trend was surprisingly broken temporarily when Blair was the main man.
The main agenda of big business is making money,and they seem to be very concerned about BREXIT

Big Business will always cosy up to the party that they think will win. It is as cynical and simple as that.

BB abandoned Johnny Major when the polls pointed to The Reverend Blair winning easily in 1997.

Take a look at who the dreadful Alan Sugar has supported over the years.

 

[Alistair20000]

I fear there is insufficient understanding of Marxist analysis going on here. The lumpenproletariat is not, as many seem to think, a term for big lumpy (thick?) working class people. It is in fact the class outside and beyond the working class, those not engaged in and exploited by mainstream capitalist activity, which involves the surplus value the proletariat creates being stolen by the bourgeoisie. The lumpenproletariat is outside the mainstream class struggle (proletariat vs bourgeoisie) and comprises prostitutes, beggars, grifters, drifters and the like - the "lumpen" refers to the rags they wore, not their physical characteristics.

Morning art, How’s it hanging ?

I rather fear that not that many folk are as assiduous readers of the weighty tomes of Marx and Engels as you appear to be. I must confess I found them crashingly boring.

The word “lumpen” has taken on a modern definition that includes thick, poorly educated, common
inferior, low life. For that reason I decline to use the word in referring to anyone at all.

 

[IndoMike]

Big Business will always cosy up to the party that they think will win. It is as cynical and simple as that.

BB abandoned Johnny Major when the polls pointed to The Reverend Blair winning easily in 1997.

Take a look at who the dreadful Alan Sugar has supported over the years.

It's true that big business will sidle up to any party if it feels it is advantageous. But generally speaking BB has-been more associated with Con rather than Lab, possibly because everyone thinks that Lab are secret Marxist - Leninists: taboo names in the UK press et Al.

 

[IndoMike]

I thought Indo had done this, making a start by interviewing all those who have died since voting. FCAT rather than perdiction. All Brexiteers apparently.

It was hard work

 

[DB9]

Once again a Tory PM's deal is on a knife edge and are relying on 10 NI bigots in the DUP

 

[DB9]

Once again a Tory PM's deal is on a knife edge and are relying on 10 NI bigots in the DUP

As it stands the DUP says that they can't accept this deal but talks are ongoing

 

[IndoMike]

As it stands the DUP says that they can't accept this deal but talks are ongoing

Kerching kerching