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Ollie Watkins

BerksBee

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
122
As you say, my conclusion is shared by many…
Yes, indeed it is. Quite a large number of supporters hold the same view, many going one step further and saying that Frank isn’t up to the job, is out of his depth, doesn’t know English football well enough, can’t communicate with the players effectively, has lost the dressing room and ultimately needs to be replaced. All of which, in my opinion—and I’ve given it some thought, avoids the real reasons for why we’ve gone from playoff contenders to a relegation battle in a fairly short space of time. Whilst Smith being replaced by Frank may have been the tipping point adding to problems that already existed, it wasn’t the cause. But I can well understand why people may want to view it in that way.

I didn't know that the run of bad results had already started with Smith and would be grateful if you could provide me with the stats. If you're right, might that also have been related to the rumours about Smith leaving for Villa a few weeks before he did actually leave, thus unsettling the team a little?
Undoubtedly it played a part, as did the sudden death at 28 of Rob Rowan the Technical Director, who was an immensely popular and influential figure at the club. This happened just after Thomas Frank took over and you can’t underestimate the negative impact that this had on everyone at the club.

The stats make quite interesting reading. The turning point (and I watched this game) happened away at Ipswich on the 18th September. 1-0 up in the first half, we came under a barrage of aerial balls put into the box and the inevitable happened, the ball was scrambled over the line and it ended up 1-1. Yet another game thrown away from a winning position. Bear in mind, Ipswich are bottom of the table and probably the worst side in the division!

Prior to that, under Smith the results were decent, but bear in mind 4 of these games were at home where we’ve traditionally been very strong. P7, W4, D2, L1. So one loss in the opening 7 games, which was away to Blackburn. Then the 1-1 draw to Ipswich and after this you see the change under Smith’s next 4 games: P4, D3, L1! So four wins in the first 7 games then 4 draws and a loss in the next 5. Why did they suddenly stop winning? Thomas Frank took over on the 16th October and his record is even grimmer losing his first 3, won one, lost the next 3, drew one, lost the next 2, won one, drew one. So…

Under Smith: P12, W4, D6, L2
Under Frank: P12, W2, D2, L8

Those results are pretty revealing in themselves and I think you can see that many of the problems were pre-existing under Smith that took a combination of events to turn previous drawn games into losses under Frank. They went from drawing games to losing them—fine margins most of the defeats were by one goal, no side has taken us apart, on the contrary—we’ve gifted far too many easy goals.

I think Brentford will be safe, since the team definitely has goals in it, but the dream of PL football is still a long way off. At least you can dream it! We dream of Div 1 !!
The long term aim is unquestionably to achieve promotion to the Premiership. In my opinion that’s more a question of when not if because I know how driven our owner is in achieving his objectives. Which of course springs up the question of why it hasn’t happened before now? The simple answer is because there hasn’t been any real urgency to do so! The media facilties at Griffin Park is the biggest problem and the bottom line is, we’d need to receive special dispensation from the Premier League to continue playing there, hence the building of the new stadium. It really doesn’t make any sense to make a big push towards achieving promotion until we’re in the new stadium. So we’ve pretty much been ‘treading water’ in the Championship until the new stadium is ready.

Four consecutive top 10 finishes I think confirms we’ve been there or thereabout each season, but simply lacked that final push of hanging on to key players in the January window and bringing in quality additions that we’d need for a concerted push for promotion, but you can understand why that hasn’t happened.

As I've said before, I don't think many if any City fans have bad feelings about the Bees : it was just your emphasis on being a special club that peeved some of us.
I do understand that. All I can say is that I would really urge any interested Exeter City supporters to have look at how the club is actually run. I’m confident they will be genuinely impressed at just how well run the club is—from the management structure, coaching right through to ‘care in the commumity’. Special was perhaps the wrong word—different is probably a better one.

Good luck for you and good luck for us.
Thank you!

I would like to take the opportunity to wish all Exeter supporters a Happy and successful New Year and hopefully promotion at the end of it.

As this is the Watkins thread, it’s appropriate that I finish with a note about him. It’s been noticed (and commented on) that in his last two games as a starter against Birmingham on Saturday and as a sub today against Norwich his performances have been a bit below par. There might be a number of reasons for this, but I’ve read several comments saying he looked disinterested and his mind seemed to be elsewhere. Whether this suggests an impending move in the January window is anyones guess, but at the moment he looks like a player who doesn’t want to be where he is. So I’ll leave that one with you all to ponder over.
 

BerksBee

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
122
He’s also playing against ex Premiership players a lot of times and some of these teams are very hard to break down. That may have something to do with it.
Yes, that was running through my mind too. He's not finding things as easy now as he used to and he's coming up against some class defenders that are not giving him any time or room. It might just be be frustration creeping in.
 

IndoMike

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Joined
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Messages
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Touring Central Java...
Yes, indeed it is. Quite a large number of supporters hold the same view, many going one step further and saying that Frank isn’t up to the job, is out of his depth, doesn’t know English football well enough, can’t communicate with the players effectively, has lost the dressing room and ultimately needs to be replaced. All of which, in my opinion—and I’ve given it some thought, avoids the real reasons for why we’ve gone from playoff contenders to a relegation battle in a fairly short space of time. Whilst Smith being replaced by Frank may have been the tipping point adding to problems that already existed, it wasn’t the cause. But I can well understand why people may want to view it in that way.


Undoubtedly it played a part, as did the sudden death at 28 of Rob Rowan the Technical Director, who was an immensely popular and influential figure at the club. This happened just after Thomas Frank took over and you can’t underestimate the negative impact that this had on everyone at the club.

The stats make quite interesting reading. The turning point (and I watched this game) happened away at Ipswich on the 18th September. 1-0 up in the first half, we came under a barrage of aerial balls put into the box and the inevitable happened, the ball was scrambled over the line and it ended up 1-1. Yet another game thrown away from a winning position. Bear in mind, Ipswich are bottom of the table and probably the worst side in the division!

Prior to that, under Smith the results were decent, but bear in mind 4 of these games were at home where we’ve traditionally been very strong. P7, W4, D2, L1. So one loss in the opening 7 games, which was away to Blackburn. Then the 1-1 draw to Ipswich and after this you see the change under Smith’s next 4 games: P4, D3, L1! So four wins in the first 7 games then 4 draws and a loss in the next 5. Why did they suddenly stop winning? Thomas Frank took over on the 16th October and his record is even grimmer losing his first 3, won one, lost the next 3, drew one, lost the next 2, won one, drew one. So…

Under Smith: P12, W4, D6, L2
Under Frank: P12, W2, D2, L8

Those results are pretty revealing in themselves and I think you can see that many of the problems were pre-existing under Smith that took a combination of events to turn previous drawn games into losses under Frank. They went from drawing games to losing them—fine margins most of the defeats were by one goal, no side has taken us apart, on the contrary—we’ve gifted far too many easy goals.


The long term aim is unquestionably to achieve promotion to the Premiership. In my opinion that’s more a question of when not if because I know how driven our owner is in achieving his objectives. Which of course springs up the question of why it hasn’t happened before now? The simple answer is because there hasn’t been any real urgency to do so! The media facilties at Griffin Park is the biggest problem and the bottom line is, we’d need to receive special dispensation from the Premier League to continue playing there, hence the building of the new stadium. It really doesn’t make any sense to make a big push towards achieving promotion until we’re in the new stadium. So we’ve pretty much been ‘treading water’ in the Championship until the new stadium is ready.

Four consecutive top 10 finishes I think confirms we’ve been there or thereabout each season, but simply lacked that final push of hanging on to key players in the January window and bringing in quality additions that we’d need for a concerted push for promotion, but you can understand why that hasn’t happened.


I do understand that. All I can say is that I would really urge any interested Exeter City supporters to have look at how the club is actually run. I’m confident they will be genuinely impressed at just how well run the club is—from the management structure, coaching right through to ‘care in the commumity’. Special was perhaps the wrong word—different is probably a better one.


Thank you!

I would like to take the opportunity to wish all Exeter supporters a Happy and successful New Year and hopefully promotion at the end of it.

As this is the Watkins thread, it’s appropriate that I finish with a note about him. It’s been noticed (and commented on) that in his last two games as a starter against Birmingham on Saturday and as a sub today against Norwich his performances have been a bit below par. There might be a number of reasons for this, but I’ve read several comments saying he looked disinterested and his mind seemed to be elsewhere. Whether this suggests an impending move in the January window is anyones guess, but at the moment he looks like a player who doesn’t want to be where he is. So I’ll leave that one with you all to ponder over.
Thanks for your lengthy reply.
I guess footballers are human and there are many possible reasons why a player can lose form, as I mentioned above. He might even be missing beautiful Devon !
You're right about the Championship : it's very competitive and there are several clubs who have some financial clout and big support. If you stand still you'll slip.
I hope you realize that Exeter City despite being a small club is very much a community club and supports /organizes a lot of community activities. Furthermore our academy in the last few years has produced Grimes (Swansea), Watkins, Ampadu (we woz totally robbed by Chelsea/ Tribunal), Storey (Preston) , JMT (MKD) in addition to furthering the career of Wheeler and now Stockley.
Other academy "products" include Pym, who has played for England U21, and some real prospects in Collins (scored a blinder yesterday) and Hartridge amongst others. We have developed our ground nicely and have one of the best training facilities in the country.
Considering we are genuinely a Trust-owned club (The Trust even democratically decided to instruct the Board to end Tisdale's untenable 2-year rolling contract) with no sugar daddy at allI think our record is hard to beat. However, it is true that we have more constraints than Brentford and it will be difficult for us to emulate your club. But I doubt if there is a better-run, more ethical club in the country than City. "Small is beautiful", one could say.
We all hope Ollie will regain his form for his own good self and of course for our own vested interest. Generally Brentford is thought of as a good club and I would bet that they will easily avoid relegation.
IM
PS. Sorry to hear about your club losing your young DoF at such a young age, We experienced the same when we lost Adam Stansfield and in fact have named our new grandstand in his honor.
I'm sure it did have an impact on your team.
 

spanky

exeweb.com eejit
Staff member
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
3,557
Well aren't those figures revealing. First twelve games under Smith, borderline playoff form. Under the new management, total relegation form. You can put as much waffle either side of those figures, but they totally disprove what you're trying to say.

Teams go through patchy form. That always recovered under Smith. Under Frank it never has, and doesn't look likely to.

Sorry to hear about your DoF.
 

Bee gone

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
19
Well aren't those figures revealing. First twelve games under Smith, borderline playoff form. Under the new management, total relegation form. You can put as much waffle either side of those figures, but they totally disprove what you're trying to say.

Teams go through patchy form. That always recovered under Smith. Under Frank it never has, and doesn't look likely to.

Sorry to hear about your DoF.
Frank has been at the club 2 years and turned 10 game winless run around when he joined.we are recovering unbeaten in 4
The championship is a league more familiar with long winless and winning runs than most others see Hull City and Wigan.Waffle new year to you
 

Super Ronnie Jepson

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Joined
Jan 18, 2005
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Location
Tiverton
Yes, indeed it is. Quite a large number of supporters hold the same view, many going one step further and saying that Frank isn’t up to the job, is out of his depth, doesn’t know English football well enough, can’t communicate with the players effectively, has lost the dressing room and ultimately needs to be replaced. All of which, in my opinion—and I’ve given it some thought, avoids the real reasons for why we’ve gone from playoff contenders to a relegation battle in a fairly short space of time. Whilst Smith being replaced by Frank may have been the tipping point adding to problems that already existed, it wasn’t the cause. But I can well understand why people may want to view it in that way.


Undoubtedly it played a part, as did the sudden death at 28 of Rob Rowan the Technical Director, who was an immensely popular and influential figure at the club. This happened just after Thomas Frank took over and you can’t underestimate the negative impact that this had on everyone at the club.

The stats make quite interesting reading. The turning point (and I watched this game) happened away at Ipswich on the 18th September. 1-0 up in the first half, we came under a barrage of aerial balls put into the box and the inevitable happened, the ball was scrambled over the line and it ended up 1-1. Yet another game thrown away from a winning position. Bear in mind, Ipswich are bottom of the table and probably the worst side in the division!

Prior to that, under Smith the results were decent, but bear in mind 4 of these games were at home where we’ve traditionally been very strong. P7, W4, D2, L1. So one loss in the opening 7 games, which was away to Blackburn. Then the 1-1 draw to Ipswich and after this you see the change under Smith’s next 4 games: P4, D3, L1! So four wins in the first 7 games then 4 draws and a loss in the next 5. Why did they suddenly stop winning? Thomas Frank took over on the 16th October and his record is even grimmer losing his first 3, won one, lost the next 3, drew one, lost the next 2, won one, drew one. So…

Under Smith: P12, W4, D6, L2
Under Frank: P12, W2, D2, L8

Those results are pretty revealing in themselves and I think you can see that many of the problems were pre-existing under Smith that took a combination of events to turn previous drawn games into losses under Frank. They went from drawing games to losing them—fine margins most of the defeats were by one goal, no side has taken us apart, on the contrary—we’ve gifted far too many easy goals.


The long term aim is unquestionably to achieve promotion to the Premiership. In my opinion that’s more a question of when not if because I know how driven our owner is in achieving his objectives. Which of course springs up the question of why it hasn’t happened before now? The simple answer is because there hasn’t been any real urgency to do so! The media facilties at Griffin Park is the biggest problem and the bottom line is, we’d need to receive special dispensation from the Premier League to continue playing there, hence the building of the new stadium. It really doesn’t make any sense to make a big push towards achieving promotion until we’re in the new stadium. So we’ve pretty much been ‘treading water’ in the Championship until the new stadium is ready.

Four consecutive top 10 finishes I think confirms we’ve been there or thereabout each season, but simply lacked that final push of hanging on to key players in the January window and bringing in quality additions that we’d need for a concerted push for promotion, but you can understand why that hasn’t happened.


I do understand that. All I can say is that I would really urge any interested Exeter City supporters to have look at how the club is actually run. I’m confident they will be genuinely impressed at just how well run the club is—from the management structure, coaching right through to ‘care in the commumity’. Special was perhaps the wrong word—different is probably a better one.


Thank you!

I would like to take the opportunity to wish all Exeter supporters a Happy and successful New Year and hopefully promotion at the end of it.

As this is the Watkins thread, it’s appropriate that I finish with a note about him. It’s been noticed (and commented on) that in his last two games as a starter against Birmingham on Saturday and as a sub today against Norwich his performances have been a bit below par. There might be a number of reasons for this, but I’ve read several comments saying he looked disinterested and his mind seemed to be elsewhere. Whether this suggests an impending move in the January window is anyones guess, but at the moment he looks like a player who doesn’t want to be where he is. So I’ll leave that one with you all to ponder over.
Must be nice to pick and choose when you get promoted to the Premier League. Don't know why more clubs don't do it, it would certainly be less stressful.
 
Last edited:

fred binneys head

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Can everyone please stop quoting huge quotes. Thanks.
 

Billy The Fish

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Great thread this has turned out to be - everything you never wanted to know about Brentford FC.
 

IndoMike

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Can everyone please stop quoting huge quotes. Thanks.
Thought I'd quote a short quote to lower your blood pressure. Here to help.

Doc IndoMike (Specialist in Failure (swear))
 

Sexton Blake

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Bottom line I think it will be a little while yet before we get any further return on his transfer. Any talk about Spurs lining up a bid of £20M must be purely pie in the sky.
 
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