Danny Coles unhappy with fans today

[davidjenkin]

But doesn't Nicholls form prove the point about introducing players carefully and slowly most of the time? I'm afraid I don't agree that 18-20-year olds are all fully grown men with fully formed temperaments who can be treated in exactly the same way as experienced players - it depends on the individual player. Just looking at my 17 and 18 year-old niece and nephew and their friends of ages ranging anywhere up to 20/21 shows me that some people of that age are very mature adults with the strength to handle many things, while a few are very childlike in many ways.

Footballers are no exception - for every preternatural young talent like George there are many more who need careful handling in case their confidence is destroyed by playing them in situations they might not be ready to handle. Gosling is a case in point - a decent player, but who I recall struggling terribly in a game where it was plain for anyone close to the pitch to see that he was suffering more and more distress and that the confidence was draining out of him by by the second. Eventually Tisdale had to take him off (and IIRC was criticised by the usual suspects for doing so). Of course it often tends to be the most talented players who are the most self-assured - when you have the ability Grimes seems to have it is obviously easier to be confident and so the way he struts around the pitch is hardly a surprise.


EDIT: I was at Accrington, and I hope the 100 or so others who made it too would agree with me that if there were any doubts whatsoever that our younger players are not man enough for the job, this game makes a mockery of that. Horrendous wind blowing to corner flag, heavy drizzle and rain for an hour, a physical Stanley side who like aerial football, a pig of a pitch, and they were again the best players on the field. So please, please, please, no more crap about them needing to be protected from the mean old wolf that is football

[/QUOTE]

They're not made of china Jabba, if they have a bad game they learn from it - same as any other footballer. You never stop learning. You don't see other teams holding back on their bright prospects - Everton with Barkley and the likes and a certain Mr Rooney, Liverpool with Flanaghan and Sterling among many others, Man Utd with Januzaj - and that's asking them to deal with the premiership and media associated with it. All this talk of ushering them in slowly is fine if they turn out for us and are very clearly an unpolished diamond, but when they come and make our senior players look ****e in comparison, the argument doesn't hold for me. Every player of every age has confidence issues from time to time and why wouldn't they?

 

[jabba the gut]

They're not made of china Jabba, if they have a bad game they learn from it - same as any other footballer. You never stop learning. You don't see other teams holding back on their bright prospects - Everton with Barkley and the likes and a certain Mr Rooney, Liverpool with Flanaghan and Sterling among many others, Man Utd with Januzaj - and that's asking them to deal with the premiership and media associated with it. All this talk of ushering them in slowly is fine if they turn out for us and are very clearly an unpolished diamond, but when they come and make our senior players look ****e in comparison, the argument doesn't hold for me. Every player of every age has confidence issues from time to time and why wouldn't they?

Youngsters mature at different ages in life, not just in football. I would imagine the extent to which they can handle a first-team place at a professional football club is a combination of their maturity and their basic ability. An exceptional player might be able to use that extra reserve of quality to get him through a situation that a lesser player might not be able to cope with until he's a little older. All the players you refer to are exceptional young talents by any standard. How many seventeen and eighteen year-olds become regular starters? Or to put it another way, how many established professionals were regular starters at that kind of age? If you look at it that way it would seem to me that it's fairly standard to take things slowly with young players.

I'm not sure who you mean when you mention young players who've played better than the established professionals they replaced, but I assume you're referring to Nicholls, Grimes and JMT. Doesn't the fact that they appear to be handling a role in the first-team well demonstrate that the strategy is correct? You seem to be arguing that because they've played well recently, therefore they should have been in the side long before now, but that doesn't necessarily follow. It could be the case that they are playing well precisely because they've been introduced over time and their progress carefully managed.

 

[davidjenkin]

Youngsters mature at different ages in life, not just in football. I would imagine the extent to which they can handle a first-team place at a professional football club is a combination of their maturity and their basic ability. An exceptional player might be able to use that extra reserve of quality to get him through a situation that a lesser player might not be able to cope with until he's a little older. All the players you refer to are exceptional young talents by any standard. How many seventeen and eighteen year-olds become regular starters? Or to put it another way, how many established professionals were regular starters at that kind of age? If you look at it that way it would seem to me that it's fairly standard to take things slowly with young players.

I'm not sure who you mean when you mention young players who've played better than the established professionals they replaced, but I assume you're referring to Nicholls, Grimes and JMT. Doesn't the fact that they appear to be handling a role in the first-team well demonstrate that the strategy is correct? You seem to be arguing that because they've played well recently, therefore they should have been in the side long before now, but that doesn't necessarily follow. It could be the case that they are playing well precisely because they've been introduced over time and their progress carefully managed.

Regarding your first paragraph Jabba I simply don't have the time to list every player in the 92 who is a regular feature for their team while under the age of 21 shall we say? Put it this way, I think you'll be surprised how things have changed over the last 5-10rs with younger players

Second paragraph has just become circular. So this will need to placed in the personal opinion category. I personally believe they've been ready for a while, we'll never know, but what I do feel is that they would have done at least as decent a job as some of the senior players. Nichols, Grimes and JMT yes, but also Dawson, Jay, Gosling, Wheeler and even Reid have all looked the part to me this season when given their chance. Davies and Sercombe will usually do one good thing a game, and yes this may be a screamer of a goal, but over the 90 I don't think they have the energy and drive of say, Gosling and Wheeler. Until Saturday I'd have said Jay puts himself about as much as Gill and has more to offer in a creative aspect but Gilly was fantastic v Accrington. JMT and Bennett to me make a better CB pairing than Crybaby Coles and Baldwin (Bennett was fantastic at the back on Saturday) And as for strikers, Nichols and Reid in my eyes are far more likely to get you a goal than Flynn and Parkin

But time will out as they say

 

[GeraintJones]

Regarding your first paragraph Jabba I simply don't have the time to list every player in the 92 who is a regular feature for their team while under the age of 21 shall we say? Put it this way, I think you'll be surprised how things have changed over the last 5-10rs with younger players

Second paragraph has just become circular. So this will need to placed in the personal opinion category. I personally believe they've been ready for a while, we'll never know, but what I do feel is that they would have done at least as decent a job as some of the senior players. Nichols, Grimes and JMT yes, but also Dawson, Jay, Gosling, Wheeler and even Reid have all looked the part to me this season when given their chance. Davies and Sercombe will usually do one good thing a game, and yes this may be a screamer of a goal, but over the 90 I don't think they have the energy and drive of say, Gosling and Wheeler. Until Saturday I'd have said Jay puts himself about as much as Gill and has more to offer in a creative aspect but Gilly was fantastic v Accrington. JMT and Bennett to me make a better CB pairing than Crybaby Coles and Baldwin (Bennett was fantastic at the back on Saturday) And as for strikers, Nichols and Reid in my eyes are far more likely to get you a goal than Flynn and Parkin

But time will out as they say

Any statistical evidence to back up that Jamie Reid is "far more likely to get you a goal" than John O'Flynn. How many times have you seen Reid play?

What do you mean by Jake Gosling and David Wheeler have more "energy and drive" than Aaron Davies and Liam Sercombe? I don't believe football is as simple as saying "players X & Y are in the team and we're losing, therefore players A & B should be in the team instead."

I don't agree that it's down to personal opinion. The manager sees the players on the training ground/u21 matches etc. I think we have to concede that he's in a much better position to judge when players are ready.

 

[Egg]

Any statistical evidence to back up that Jamie Reid is "far more likely to get you a goal" than John O'Flynn. How many times have you seen Reid play?

What do you mean by Jake Gosling and David Wheeler have more "energy and drive" than Aaron Davies and Liam Sercombe? I don't believe football is as simple as saying "players X & Y are in the team and we're losing, therefore players A & B should be in the team instead."

I don't agree that it's down to personal opinion. The manager sees the players on the training ground/u21 matches etc. I think we have to concede that he's in a much better position to judge when players are ready.

Interesting points. From what I've picked up Tis attaches quite a lot of significance to statistical analysis. So, while David probably hasn't got any stats to support his point of view I'd wager that, rightly or wrongly, the manager uses stats when making his team selection.

 

[rp42]

Another thread going way of course,time to close it .

 

[richard_portland]

Not sure if Danny was at game last night but he tweeted his car had let him down and he had to walk home two miles so guess not. Tweeted him back to say its a shame but we all have problems like having watched another poor home performance. #****happens. Haven't had a reply yet!

 

[Grecian1966]

Not sure if Danny was at game last night but he tweeted his car had let him down and he had to walk home two miles so guess not. Tweeted him back to say its a shame but we all have problems like having watched another poor home performance. #****happens. Haven't had a reply yet!

Yep sat with Tommy Doc in the OG

 

[spanky]

Apparently Stuart James has been banned by Mr Coles from talking to any ECFC over 30's due to comments made in Stuart's WMN Rochdale report.

What authority does Coles have to ban anyone from anything at ECFC?!?

Not only a rubbish footballer, but clearly a ham shank too. (Coles, not Mr S. James)

 

[memoman]

Coles can **** off as well. Non-league clogger.