Windfall Spend

[ExmouthMart]

You seem angry and disenchanted in relation to how our club is run.
I have to admit I’ve not read the entire thread, but if you feel as strongly as you appear to, have you ever considered standing for a role which would potentially give you more influence, if you haven’t already?

Hardly angry! What’s the point?! Not disenchanted either just wondered out loud why it’s so difficult for anyone to explain the OTR situation as it costs a lot of money and is a ten year commitment (at least!). It’s just a strange arrangement to go on year after year. As for standing for the trust, I believe you need at least an academic background to understand the workings of that, so no matter how many books you read my Exmouth Comprehensive background would leave me some what short in such exalted company.

 

[grecian-near-hell]

Isn’t this the windfall thread?! We would have £60000 a year more if we weren’t paying this ‘rent’. Quite a significant amount of money. I am entitled to my opinion as a member of this forum and as usual when you ask questions that are a bit awkward for some the usual suspects appear with thinly veiled personal abuse. What is this huge great chip nonsense?! It costs me £3 a month for the feel good factor of being an ‘owner’. It doesn’t make me feel any better now or 45+ years a go when I first started following City. I will always support Exeter City regardless of which crap robbing owner we have or village fete committee running the show we have, preferably no more robbing ones obviously! Yes it’s all great and long may it continue. Is that better for you?!

Once you get rid of your vitriol towards the trust your proposal for our “windfall” is to buy out one of our landlords, OTR. I assume you have read both sets of accounts, the clubs whereby you learnt about the amount we are paying, and OTR’s where you can see other creditors of 470k and I assume relates to loans for our property. What you have omitted to mention is that we (ECFC) have an option to buy the property for £1 once OTR has repaid those interest free loans, which effectively should be by the end of the term of the lease I would imagine.
So we blow say half a mill to lift out something that is costing us £5k per month, approx 1.5% of our turnover and which will ultimately be ours in ten years so we can say we actually own something now, yeah that’s a good call.
We’ll disregard improving the Cliff Hill cos we want to own the old St James School building.
Forget the transfer budget and allowing the manager some leeway to stretch it a bit to get that special player in cos we own a building that would generate no more income.
Lets let the academy tread water for a bit because owning some bricks and mortar is more important than further investment in one of our major income streams.
I’ll go along with that cos I want to own something, something that we can say we own something we can see and touch. Brilliant idea. Thank heavens I have got rid of my village fete mentality.

 

[Trapdoor]

As for standing for the trust, I believe you need at least an academic background to understand the workings of that, so no matter how many books you read my Exmouth Comprehensive background would leave me some what short in such exalted company.

This isn't true. I feel you should be able to understand a profit/loss sheet to understand the overall financial trajectory of the club, but that's hardly an academic requirement.
At elections people are more likely to vote for candidates with career experience in specific areas and people who can clearly define their goals and objectives for the role they are standing for. None of that is "academic". In fact I cant recall any board members specific academic credentials in the trust (apart from perhaps Dr Treharne.)

 

[ExmouthMart]

Once you get rid of your vitriol towards the trust your proposal for our “windfall” is to buy out one of our landlords, OTR. I assume you have read both sets of accounts, the clubs whereby you learnt about the amount we are paying, and OTR’s where you can see other creditors of 470k and I assume relates to loans for our property. What you have omitted to mention is that we (ECFC) have an option to buy the property for £1 once OTR has repaid those interest free loans, which effectively should be by the end of the term of the lease I would imagine.
So we blow say half a mill to lift out something that is costing us £5k per month, approx 1.5% of our turnover and which will ultimately be ours in ten years so we can say we actually own something now, yeah that’s a good call.
We’ll disregard improving the Cliff Hill cos we want to own the old St James School building.
Forget the transfer budget and allowing the manager some leeway to stretch it a bit to get that special player in cos we own a building that would generate no more income.
Lets let the academy tread water for a bit because owning some bricks and mortar is more important than further investment in one of our major income streams.
I’ll go along with that cos I want to own something, something that we can say we own something we can see and touch. Brilliant idea. Thank heavens I have got rid of my village fete mentality.

The Park building was originally bought by a group of local business people who formed OTR in 1998. By making the purchase they safeguarded the building for the club. Although the make-up of the ownership group has changed over the years, the members did not make any profit on their investment. The club was charged an annual rent, which contributed towards the payment of historical external debt.

Nick added: “The purchase of The Park building is an important decision, and again it feels like another step towards safeguarding our club’s future. We would like to pass on our thanks to the group who stepped in to buy the building all those years ago and who have had no return on their investment – we are extremely grateful to them. Thanks to them we are now able to purchase this important building and continue to invest in St James Park.” Nick Hawker March 2021.
So when’s this happening then if we have signed a new ten lease agreement?! You also assume it relates to a loan, so you are not completely sure?!

 

[grecian-near-hell]

Nick added: “The purchase of The Park building is an important decision, and again it feels like another step towards safeguarding our club’s future. We would like to pass on our thanks to the group who stepped in to buy the building all those years ago and who have had no return on their investment – we are extremely grateful to them. Thanks to them we are now able to purchase this important building and continue to invest in St James Park.” Nick Hawker March 2021.
So when’s this happening then if we have signed a new ten lease agreement?! You also assume it relates to a loan, so you are not completely sure?!

I am not sure about any of it except the bit where it says in the clubs latest 2022 accounts :
“The lease is for a period of ten years at a rent of £10,000 per annum (subject to reviews). There is an option included in the lease which enables the club to take a transfer of the freehold of the OTR premises for £1 once all the interest free loans made by various participants of OTR have been repaid by OTR. OTR will use the rental income to repay the loans after any costs.”
Now not being a member of the board of either company that is all I know, but effectively to me although being described as rent I interpret it as repayment due to this wording. Admittedly we are relying on the integrity of OTR and it’s members but as they initially provided the cash in the first place interest free I’ll generally go along with it.
As, over the years this has ground with you so much, why you haven’t put yourself forward for the trust board I don’t know, you certainly have a passion about you, apart from your manifesto might be slightly limited
” I want to buy the freehold of St James School”
Again over the years of you spouting off about this and against the trust, you haven’t expressed anything that the club could do with the freehold that it can’t do now. Perhaps when you raise the subject again you could come up with a business plan as to the extra benefits owning it will bring the club, and an estimate of the rewards financial and otherwise it will bring.

 

[iscalad]

I am not sure about any of it except the bit where it says in the clubs latest 2022 accounts :
“The lease is for a period of ten years at a rent of £10,000 per annum (subject to reviews). There is an option included in the lease which enables the club to take a transfer of the freehold of the OTR premises for £1 once all the interest free loans made by various participants of OTR have been repaid by OTR. OTR will use the rental income to repay the loans after any costs.”
Now not being a member of the board of either company that is all I know, but effectively to me although being described as rent I interpret it as repayment due to this wording. Admittedly we are relying on the integrity of OTR and it’s members but as they initially provided the cash in the first place interest free I’ll generally go along with it.
As, over the years this has ground with you so much, why you haven’t put yourself forward for the trust board I don’t know, you certainly have a passion about you, apart from your manifesto might be slightly limited
” I want to buy the freehold of St James School”
Again over the years of you spouting off about this and against the trust, you haven’t expressed anything that the club could do with the freehold that it can’t do now. Perhaps when you raise the subject again you could come up with a business plan as to the extra benefits owning it will bring the club, and an estimate of the rewards financial and otherwise it will bring.

This is my understanding. A bit like the club paying the mortgage and when the term ends a further £1 to own the building outright.

 

[Red Bill]

Isn’t this the windfall thread?! We would have £60000 a year more if we weren’t paying this ‘rent’. Quite a significant amount of money. I am entitled to my opinion as a member of this forum and as usual when you ask questions that are a bit awkward for some the usual suspects appear with thinly veiled personal abuse. What is this huge great chip nonsense?! It costs me £3 a month for the feel good factor of being an ‘owner’. It doesn’t make me feel any better now or 45+ years a go when I first started following City. I will always support Exeter City regardless of which crap robbing owner we have or village fete committee running the show we have, preferably no more robbing ones obviously! Yes it’s all great and long may it continue. Is that better for you?!

Questions? What questions? You're not really asking any questions, your just banging on about your pet topic in a thinly veiled attempt to smear the club and Trust as badly run. I suppose its not that surprising you're currently picking on OTR arrangements at present, as given the very clear progress the club has made in the last few years on every front, compared to the previous 100, provide pretty slim pickings for smears right now.

If the club wasn't Trust owned, you wouldn't even be aware of the OTR arrangement. But if we were privately owned how do you think the board deliberations would go? My guess is something like this:
"Well colleagues, our business that usually operates at break even point, currently has some money in the bank over and above what was expected due to recent transfer income. What should we do with it? Shall we?

A) continue to invest in the infrastructure of the club in a way that we believe will bring dividends in the future, such as continuing the redevelopment at the training ground. Which we expect to help attract better players to the club and help us move forward towards our goal of achieving championship football with all it financial benefits. Whilst also further improving our highly respected academy facilities which we hope will continue and progress the existing success that is responsible for our current windfalls whilst also continuing to attract talented youngsters from all over the west country and beyond to develop for our own first team and future transfer revenue.
B) invest in the current playing budget in the hope that we can quickly achieve promotion to the championship and the significant financial rewards that would bring.
C) blow the lot buying out OTR, which whilst currently being an appreciable yearly expense, is comfortably manageable within our budget without exposing the business to financial risk. And the acquisition of which does nothing to further the business' future development plans.

My guess is there wouldn't be too many votes for 'C'!!!. But then again we'd never know because it would be none of our business.

If you really care about the OTR situation and aren't just throwing smears about from they safety of your keyboard. Why don't you propose a resolution for the next AGM suggesting that either the Trust buys OTR out and rents the building to the club on a peppercorn rent, or if that's not possible, makes an interest free loan to the club to buy out OTR, which it repays at £60K per year. You can do this as your a Trust member, and if you genuinely believe in this I'm sure you would be able to put a very powerful business case to the membership for them to support your proposal.

You do of course have a right to your opinion as I have a right to mine. My opinion is that your opinions in relation to Trust and club ownership are utter nonsense and unfounded repetitious slurs!

 

[Colesman Ballz]

Questions? What questions? You're not really asking any questions, your just banging on about your pet topic in a thinly veiled attempt to smear the club and Trust as badly run. I suppose its not that surprising you're currently picking on OTR arrangements at present, as given the very clear progress the club has made in the last few years on every front, compared to the previous 100, provide pretty slim pickings for smears right now.

If the club wasn't Trust owned, you wouldn't even be aware of the OTR arrangement. But if we were privately owned how do you think the board deliberations would go? My guess is something like this:
"Well colleagues, our business that usually operates at break even point, currently has some money in the bank over and above what was expected due to recent transfer income. What should we do with it? Shall we?

A) continue to invest in the infrastructure of the club in a way that we believe will bring dividends in the future, such as continuing the redevelopment at the training ground. Which we expect to help attract better players to the club and help us move forward towards our goal of achieving championship football with all it financial benefits. Whilst also further improving our highly respected academy facilities which we hope will continue and progress the existing success that is responsible for our current windfalls whilst also continuing to attract talented youngsters from all over the west country and beyond to develop for our own first team and future transfer revenue.
B) invest in the current playing budget in the hope that we can quickly achieve promotion to the championship and the significant financial rewards that would bring.
C) blow the lot buying out OTR, which whilst currently being an appreciable yearly expense, is comfortably manageable within our budget without exposing the business to financial risk. And the acquisition of which does nothing to further the business' future development plans.

My guess is there wouldn't be too many votes for 'C'!!!. But then again we'd never know because it would be none of our business.

If you really care about the OTR situation and aren't just throwing smears about from they safety of your keyboard. Why don't you propose a resolution for the next AGM suggesting that either the Trust buys OTR out and rents the building to the club on a peppercorn rent, or if that's not possible, makes an interest free loan to the club to buy out OTR, which it repays at £60K per year. You can do this as your a Trust member, and if you genuinely believe in this I'm sure you would be able to put a very powerful business case to the membership for them to support your proposal.

You do of course have a right to your opinion as I have a right to mine. My opinion is that your opinions in relation to Trust and club ownership are utter nonsense and unfounded repetitious slurs!

I think a little context is required regarding EM's involvement with OTR. As I understand it he was one of the original investors, for which I thank him. He has I believe subsequently been offered and accepted a refund on his investment and been "bought out" by the Club as part of the medium term strategy of gaining ownership. I can thus understand his interest even if I do find his attitude a little churlish.

 

[Grecian in Guzz]

Will Trust ownership ever allow a player budget close to our Cuonty Cousins ?

Argyle sign Bali Mumba for club-record equalling transfer fee

Mumba has returned to Home Park - and this time permanently - after his hugely successful loan spell last season

www.plymouthherald.co.uk

 

[Pete Martin (CTID)]

Will Trust ownership ever allow a player budget close to our Cuonty Cousins ?

Argyle sign Bali Mumba for club-record equalling transfer fee

Mumba has returned to Home Park - and this time permanently - after his hugely successful loan spell last season

www.plymouthherald.co.uk

Nope. Probably not. We will just have to do a better job with what we have.