Round holes, square pegs

[edwin_price]

We're not doing brilliantly, we're doing reasonably well. How do you set your expectations? Just that you want to win the league, so therefore your expectation is to win the league? Probably fairer to judge according to resources, which, no-one knows for sure, but I think its a reasonable guess that our wage bill is further down than 9th in the league. Does that mean I'm "happy" with 9th? No. But the problem is getting the resources to increase the wage bill, which isn't really Tisdales remit. Biggest wage bill in the league? Expect to win the league. Smallest? Expect to come bottom. Middling wage bill... expect midtable. Obviously it doesn't always pan out that way, but if you give someone a lower midtable budget, its not a fair expectation that he builds a title-winning squad with it.

 

[CREDYGRECIAN]

We never hear what the targets are

Is he judged on not hitting his targets ?

He says the playoffs - but of course he says that - are we really going for them ?

I'm not convinced

 

[edwin_price]

The target is to finish as high as possible, surely? Why would you put someones job on the line for an arbitrary target that's out of whack with the resources given to achieve it?

 

[Jason H]

Expect to be crap and guess what you'll be crap

Being 9th isn't an achievement being 1st is an achievement

So when Burnley stay up in the Premier League this season and people clamour for Sean Dyche to be manager of the year, you'll be saying no chance, as clearly they, and he, are crap? Likewise last season with Tony Pulis leading Crystal Palace to mid-table having looked doomed?

The hierarchy of the league will usually follow financial lines, therefore the benchmark of achievement should be whether you finish above or below your "expected" position in the table based on squad budget.

That of course opens up the question of where we sit in the budget league - common consensus amongst L2 fans suggests we're down near the bottom, but of course I, like most, don't have a Scooby about this. However, if our budget is higher than 9th in the division I'd be amazed. Bear in mind that Luton, for example, made a loss last year of £2 million which was almost entirely squad related.

 

[CREDYGRECIAN]

I don't buy into all this with our budget - wages stuff either

Look at the tables in each division

Premier league - Southampton's wage bill would be lower than Arsenal , Man U , LFC & Spurs and yet there above them in the table

Championship - Bournemouth & Brentford wage bills would be lower than many below them or around them

League 1 - Oldham wage bill I'd imagine would be lower than many below them or around them

League 2 - Wycombe as above

It's not about money in the lower levels as much as it is in the premier league for example

We can't buy a world class player who can make that much difference like a big club - but neither can any club in league 2

Organisation , pace , strength & the willingness to adapt tactics depending on who your playing or where your playing is as important

 

[Jason H]

I suspect you're a trifle naïve if you think Bournemouth's wage bill (to name one there) isn't right up there. Plenty of filthy Russian lucre flying around, meaning they can make £5 million transfer bids.

However, the above examples are generally of overachievement, none of those clubs would have been predicted to do very well - and that is fine. We *may* be in that bracket too, sitting in 9th, if what the hoi polloi says about our comparative budget is true.

On the other hand, you have teams underachieving in our division, such as Northampton (although I still believe they'll be promoted at season's end) and especially Portsmouth.

This is part and parcel of Football, that some teams will get their £1.50 for every £1 spent (as per our mantra), others will only get 47p.

But even at our level, if your budget is 12th out of 24, your benchmark position is 12th. Anything above is achievement (and significantly above is overachievement e.g. Wycombe), anything significantly below is underachievement.

 

[Jason H]

To add, I ran a competition on the (now deceased) TFF forum, which was a simple predict the table competition.

70 people took part, supporters of clubs across L2 (with a few others).

City's predicted average position was 21st. Of those 70 people, 32 predicted us to be relegated (25 of them predicting rock bottom). In terms of overachievement, Wycombe have the greatest difference (average position also 21st although slightly higher than us), then it's us.

The biggest underachievers have been York, Carlisle and Portsmouth. Most of the other teams are there or thereabouts from where they were predicted.

 

[Colesman Ballz]

The target is to finish as high as possible, surely? Why would you put someones job on the line for an arbitrary target that's out of whack with the resources given to achieve it?

I don't buy that, because Tisdale is in a situation largely of his own making. The main source of funding is revenue derives from Home match income. Attendances have dwindled dramatically with 3 and a half seasons of dreadful home results. We even managed to equal Gerry Francis' record of home reverses in a season. Winning home matches is more important than away ones for the club finances. Every player is playing under a contract that he has offered, it is his team. He has lost the ability to motivate the team to start games positively, and we have to watch aging journeymen pace themselves in order to last 90 minutes whilst the majority of our younger players who offer the drive and enthusiasm start on the bench or are loaned out to non league. Our U21 Premier Cup side last season was a formidable unit, and they should be forming the core of the team, instead of geriatrics who offer no long term solution. Yes by all means has a couple of old wise heads but dont fill the bloody team up with them.

 

[tjcrid82]

I suspect you're a trifle naïve if you think Bournemouth's wage bill (to name one there) isn't right up there. Plenty of filthy Russian lucre flying around, meaning they can make £5 million transfer bids.

However, the above examples are generally of overachievement, none of those clubs would have been predicted to do very well - and that is fine. We *may* be in that bracket too, sitting in 9th, if what the hoi polloi says about our comparative budget is true.

On the other hand, you have teams underachieving in our division, such as Northampton (although I still believe they'll be promoted at season's end) and especially Portsmouth.

This is part and parcel of Football, that some teams will get their £1.50 for every £1 spent (as per our mantra), others will only get 47p.

But even at our level, if your budget is 12th out of 24, your benchmark position is 12th. Anything above is achievement (and significantly above is overachievement e.g. Wycombe), anything significantly below is underachievement.

I couldn't agree more. Tisdale put a nail in his own coffin by getting two promotions so quickly, the expectation from a lot of fans is now too high. Granted he is currently making some odd decisions with regards selection/signings, but we are sat in 9th place which most would have taken pre-season. Of course, i'd rather be where Wycombe are on our budget but it works both ways so I'm grateful for what we do have.

Its all very well people screaming that Tisdale go (and even though i'm a Tisdale fan my patience is waning), but in truth with our resources on average we should be in poorer shape. IMO if big changes (Tis, Taggy etc. left) were to happen, we'd more likely become worse not better.

 

[manc grecian]

I couldn't agree more. Tisdale put a nail in his own coffin by getting two promotions so quickly, the expectation from a lot of fans is now too high. Granted he is currently making some odd decisions with regards selection/signings, but we are sat in 9th place which most would have taken pre-season. Of course, i'd rather be where Wycombe are on our budget but it works both ways so I'm grateful for what we do have.

Its all very well people screaming that Tisdale go (and even though i'm a Tisdale fan my patience is waning), but in truth with our resources on average we should be in poorer shape. IMO if big changes (Tis, Taggy etc. left) were to happen, we'd more likely become worse not better.

Nobody has expectations of promotion. The majority just want him to stop dicking around with stupid formations, play the most attacking team from the start and stop wasting this paltry budget on pensioners.