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Premier League 22/23

Rosencrantz

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Did you genuinely expect the first for to be anything other than what they have been? Survival for Leeds, Forest and Bournemouth will always been seen as a successful season for them and Palace have been very Palace, nothing that's ever going to excite you unless they upset one of the big sides on their day.
But how does that relate to it not being a poor PL this season? Some clubs, particularly Brighton, have stepped on. Newcastle are playing with the confidence of a club going places with a good manager and sensible running. You should know that I have said money only matters when spent well. Any Everton fan would tell you that. Still doesn't mean that the PL hasn't been generally poor this season IMO.

You just thought there was implied criticism of the Toon didn't you? There wasn't really, I even said they were good 🤣
 

Alistair20000

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I am with Rosey on this.

Under achieving outweighing over achieving in the main this season with a few exceptions……including the Bar Codes.
 

grecIAN Harris

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But how does that relate to it not being a poor PL this season? Some clubs, particularly Brighton, have stepped on. Newcastle are playing with the confidence of a club going places with a good manager and sensible running. You should know that I have said money only matters when spent well. Any Everton fan would tell you that. Still doesn't mean that the PL hasn't been generally poor this season IMO.

You just thought there was implied criticism of the Toon didn't you? There wasn't really, I even said they were good 🤣
So in short then, because the established clubs have been poor it's been a poor season. :unsure:
 

Rosencrantz

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So in short then, because the established clubs have been poor it's been a poor season. :unsure:
Not all of them. But you cannot argue that the three I picked out have been up to the standard they would have expected or that their squads should have attained? That's their own fault in their own different ways. Their relatively poor showings in Europe have also shown that. There hasn't been a great standard in those competitions either to be honest. Other clubs, like Newcastle, have had very good seasons and deserve to be where they are, tables don't lie at the end of the season.

But also, whoever get relegated, get relegated because they weren't good enough. Often that includes a club who have played quite well, but just not enough to stay in the division because of the standard, but they gave it everything. Up until the last week or so, you probably had eight teams who were right in the thick of a relegation battle which is in itself unusual at this stage of the season. It was difficult to say who would be left standing when the music stopped although everyone would have their opinion. But what you couldn't say was that none of them didn't deserve to not be there on what they were showing. They have all been poor this season. Some have strung a win or two together to get a little clear at the moment but could easily get sucked in again. You couldn't really say anyone down there haven't been poor this season. The three you pick out you say survival will always be seen as a result, they have been poor. In any other season they would have been adrift. It's just that they have been joined by more than usual in that category so it's all still up in the air with multiple clubs.

When you tally up this season, more teams have been poor, either against their own standards or just generally poor, than those who have been good.

Tell me why it has been good or even decent in standards this season apart from those I have already said have done well?
 

grecIAN Harris

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Not all of them. But you cannot argue that the three I picked out have been up to the standard they would have expected or that their squads should have attained? That's their own fault in their own different ways. Their relatively poor showings in Europe have also shown that. There hasn't been a great standard in those competitions either to be honest. Other clubs, like Newcastle, have had very good seasons and deserve to be where they are, tables don't lie at the end of the season.

But also, whoever get relegated, get relegated because they weren't good enough. Often that includes a club who have played quite well, but just not enough to stay in the division because of the standard, but they gave it everything. Up until the last week or so, you probably had eight teams who were right in the thick of a relegation battle which is in itself unusual at this stage of the season. It was difficult to say who would be left standing when the music stopped although everyone would have their opinion. But what you couldn't say was that none of them didn't deserve to not be there on what they were showing. They have all been poor this season. Some have strung a win or two together to get a little clear at the moment but could easily get sucked in again. You couldn't really say anyone down there haven't been poor this season. The three you pick out you say survival will always be seen as a result, they have been poor. In any other season they would have been adrift. It's just that they have been joined by more than usual in that category so it's all still up in the air with multiple clubs.

When you tally up this season, more teams have been poor, either against their own standards or just generally poor, than those who have been good.

Tell me why it has been good or even decent in standards this season apart from those I have already said have done well?
Where to start? Let's start on the positives, the likes of Newcastle, Brentford, Brighton, Villa and even Fulham breaking the usual ranks. Liverpool being $h!t, Chelsea being $h!tter. Arsenal actually turning into being something decent instead of whining also rans. City being more entertaining whilst still choking the life out of everybody instead of boring them to death. United are getting better whilst still being inconsistant enough not to be good enough. It's all creating more competition and a better balance.
 

Rosencrantz

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Where to start? Let's start on the positives, the likes of Newcastle, Brentford, Brighton, Villa and even Fulham breaking the usual ranks. Liverpool being $h!t, Chelsea being $h!tter. Arsenal actually turning into being something decent instead of whining also rans. City being more entertaining whilst still choking the life out of everybody instead of boring them to death. United are getting better whilst still being inconsistant enough not to be good enough. It's all creating more competition and a better balance.
But that isn't about the standard is it, that's about your own entertainment. You have pretty much said the same as I have 🤣
 

grecIAN Harris

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But that isn't about the standard is it, that's about your own entertainment. You have pretty much said the same as I have 🤣
The likes of those mentioned in the first line have raised their standards and there is more of them than Chelsea and Liverpool who have dropped theirs. Five improve and two fall would kind of suggest an overall improvement at the top don't you think or six if you include Arsenal. The bottom end will always be the bottom end only you've got three down there you might not have expected in terms of Southampton, Leicester (who have been punching above their weight for quite a while now) and your lot who are suffering from just being abysmally run from top to bottom. You could argue it isn't any better but it certainly isn't any worse than usual, just different teams in different places. Some will rise or fall back to normality, others will carry on as before except for Southampton and one of Everton or Leicester who will be in The Championship.
 

Rosencrantz

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The likes of those mentioned in the first line have raised their standards and there is more of them than Chelsea and Liverpool who have dropped theirs. Five improve and two fall would kind of suggest an overall improvement at the top don't you think or six if you include Arsenal. The bottom end will always be the bottom end only you've got three down there you might not have expected in terms of Southampton, Leicester (who have been punching above their weight for quite a while now) and your lot who are suffering from just being abysmally run from top to bottom. You could argue it isn't any better but it certainly isn't any worse than usual, just different teams in different places. Some will rise or fall back to normality, others will carry on as before except for Southampton and one of Everton or Leicester who will be in The Championship.
I am arguing that the bottom end is bigger (😳) and the standard of being poor down there is therefore wider than normal. Any of those sides deserve to go down, it's just luck that there are more poor or underperforming sides down there this season that some will survive. Liverpool and Chelsea are miles off in terms of performance and points against what they should be getting. If you don't think Spurs performances have dropped off badly for most of this season (the whelm is very much under) and yet they were, until today, still in with a shout of a CL place isn't some kind of indicator then I don't know what is.

City and Arsenal are in a different post code to everyone else this season which can happen. Newcastle and Brighton have improved. Fulham have been a bit of a surprise and done well. I don't really think Brentford have done much different than last season to be honest in terms of style and performance. A bit more experience at the level and consistency but not much more. It's just that most others have been poorer and unable to handle them.

Just for me, the general standard has not been the best this season. We obviously disagree 😉
 

grecIAN Harris

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I am arguing that the bottom end is bigger (😳) and the standard of being poor down there is therefore wider than normal. Any of those sides deserve to go down, it's just luck that there are more poor or underperforming sides down there this season that some will survive. Liverpool and Chelsea are miles off in terms of performance and points against what they should be getting. If you don't think Spurs performances have dropped off badly for most of this season (the whelm is very much under) and yet they were, until today, still in with a shout of a CL place isn't some kind of indicator then I don't know what is.

City and Arsenal are in a different post code to everyone else this season which can happen. Newcastle and Brighton have improved. Fulham have been a bit of a surprise and done well. I don't really think Brentford have done much different than last season to be honest in terms of style and performance. A bit more experience at the level and consistency but not much more. It's just that most others have been poorer and unable to handle them.

Just for me, the general standard has not been the best this season. We obviously disagree 😉
I actually think you've got the wrong end of the stick as far as the bottom end is concerned. I think those that have come up have been an improvement on the yo-yo clubs like Norwich, Watford et al and that is why there are so many sides have been involved in the relegation scrap for so long. Apart from Southampton, no one side has been cast adrift at any point and even they have now fought back to having a fighting chance of staying up. Usually by now there is always one, if not two sides cast adrift on Championship bliss by now.
 

Rosencrantz

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I actually think you've got the wrong end of the stick as far as the bottom end is concerned. I think those that have come up have been an improvement on the yo-yo clubs like Norwich, Watford et al and that is why there are so many sides have been involved in the relegation scrap for so long. Apart from Southampton, no one side has been cast adrift at any point and even they have now fought back to having a fighting chance of staying up. Usually by now there is always one, if not two sides cast adrift on Championship bliss by now.
I actually think Bournemouth and Forest are as bad as the yo-yo clubs but have picked up more points because there are more poor/underperforming sides than usual, hence the bloated bottom end. Fulham have obviously done well albeit with largely the same side that got relegated before plus some shrewd experienced signings in Willian and Leno.
 
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