Politics Today

[Mr Jinx]

Call Me Dave should have honestly stated that his tawdry deal was crap but that it was still in the UK's best interests to stay in the EU. A perfectly honest position and maybe even right. Then do not campaign on the issue and leave it to the people. We might then have been spared the debacle and torpor of the Teaser ministry.

Cmon Al, you know whatever Cameron said once we got our 'crap deal' from the EU was of little significance. It was what he said before he got said crap deal that matters. iirc he bigged up his own negotiations giving the impression we were going to get a good deal. This then elicited the infamous Wail Headline below:



Honesty wouldn't have saved him at that point. Once the above came out of the presses, Brexit was a done deal imho.

If he had played it differently and said, look, I'm not really to get anything from the EU, but I'll try and if I get anything it'll be a bonus. He set the bar too high. Big mistake. Always set your expectations low and then exceed them. Schoolboy error from Cameron, but then he did start believing his own hype after winning the Indyref.

 

[Alistair20000]

Cmon Al, you know whatever Cameron said once we got our 'crap deal' from the EU was of little significance. It was what he said before he got said crap deal that matters. iirc he bigged up his own negotiations giving the impression we were going to get a good deal. This then elicited the infamous Wail Headline below:

View attachment 3558

Honesty wouldn't have saved him at that point. Once the above came out of the presses, Brexit was a done deal imho.

If he had played it differently and said, look, I'm not really to get anything from the EU, but I'll try and if I get anything it'll be a bonus. He set the bar too high. Big mistake. Always set your expectations low and then exceed them. Schoolboy error from Cameron, but then he did start believing his own hype after winning the Indyref.

Alright he should not have bigged it up from the outset and perhaps he should have fallen on his sword after getting the crap deal and before fighting the Referendum.

Shame Boris has not learned the lesson of bigging it up.

 

[Alistair20000]

Ideally positioned to do just that until very recently. It would have been far better to have had the EU27 inside the tent pi$$ing out, but now they're all outside...

When did the EU ever listen to what we had to say to them

 

[RedPaul]

Suspect he might have "bigged it up" as he thought he would get more than he did, only for Merkel and Sarko to pull the plug.

All they needed to do was throw him a temporary bone on FoM and we'd still be in the EU, but they didn't and we aren't

An accidental Brexit in so many ways, made into a complete dog's dinner in the 4 years since.

 

[Alistair20000]

Suspect he might have "bigged it up" as he thought he would get more than he did, only for Merkel and Sarko to pull the plug.

All they needed to do was throw him a temporary bone on FoM and we'd still be in the EU, but they didn't and we aren't

An accidental Brexit in so many ways, made into a complete dog's dinner in the 4 years since.

Yep spot on.

Merkel and Sarko were not prepared to negotiate with any proper thought for British concerns on FOM and ignored a basic rule of negotiation: it is unwise to drive the other side into a corner unless you do not really want to deal.

 

[Avening Posse]

Yep spot on.

Merkel and Sarko were not prepared to negotiate with any proper thought for British concerns on FOM and ignored a basic rule of negotiation: it is unwise to drive the other side into a corner unless you do not really want to deal.

And not just FOM, there were one or two very valid reforms sought from the net contributing UK, and the EU shot themselves in the foot big time by so obviously demonstrating that the UK had no power to change things. Never understood why they did that.

 

[Alistair20000]

And not just FOM, there were one or two very valid reforms sought from the net contributing UK, and the EU shot themselves in the foot big time by so obviously demonstrating that the UK had no power to change things. Never understood why they did that.

As I posted above they did not listen to our legitimate concerns.

Over the years when we raised concerns we were largely fobbed off and our governments of all political persuasions simply caved in. No doubt the EU thought this would happen again.

I think RP’s point and mine is that it just needed something on FOM for the Brexit vote to have gone the other way.

 

[RedPaul]

I think RP’s point and mine is that it just needed something on FOM for the Brexit vote to have gone the other way.

Yep.

A positive argument for staying rather than the unfortunate combination of Osborne's "Project Fear" and Corbyn's "7 out of 10" that characterised the Remain campaign would have helped too.

Elgy should have run it instead. We'd be in the Euro by now

 

[elginCity]

When did the EU ever listen to what we had to say to them

The UK was a leading member of the EU with a seat at the table - I should imagine THEY had no choice but to listen to what WE had to say.

Cameron’s nonsense unilateral ‘reform’ wish list was received politely and responded to iirc

 

[Alistair20000]

Yep.

A positive argument for staying rather than the unfortunate combination of Osborne's "Project Fear" and Corbyn's "7 out of 10" that characterised the Remain campaign would have helped too.

Elgy should have run it instead. We'd be in the Euro by now

And Elgy would have said: “My mission in life will be complete when I have taught Al to love the EU”