Ollie Watkins

[DB9]

Must admit after reading what the Bee's fan was saying that it's only a matter of time before they're promoted and they're unique in their approach to football does strike of arrogance, Maybe they will go up, Maybe they won't but statements like that will wind up other clubs, Seems they are ignoring the fact they have a person pumping millions in, Which helps a lot, Try doing it without a pot to **** in then you can shout. That Championship has a lot of bigger and more financed clubs in it than Brentford

 

[Stelios]

Must admit after reading what the Bee's fan was saying that it's only a matter of time before they're promoted and they're unique in their approach to football does strike of arrogance, Maybe they will go up, Maybe they won't but statements like that will wind up other clubs, Seems they are ignoring the fact they have a person pumping millions in, Which helps a lot, Try doing it without a pot to **** in then you can shout. That Championship has a lot of bigger and more financed clubs in it than Brentford

Also, I'd love to know how these 'metrics' factor in someone like Neil Warnock (love him or loathe him) who manages to motivate and train seemingly 'average' players to perform well above their pay grade.

A few years ago the bosses at Southampton were incredibly smug about their ability to sign good players cheaply and sell them on for huge profit. But suddenly they realised they no longer had any decent players and they've been s*** scared of relegation ever since.

 

[IndoMike]

Also, I'd love to know how these 'metrics' factor in someone like Neil Warnock (love him or loathe him) who manages to motivate and train seemingly 'average' players to perform well above their pay grade.

A few years ago the bosses at Southampton were incredibly smug about their ability to sign good players cheaply and sell them on for huge profit. But suddenly they realised they no longer had any decent players and they've been s*** scared of relegation ever since.

Southampton = Liverpool feeder club

 

[BerksBee]

Also, I'd love to know how these 'metrics' factor in someone like Neil Warnock (love him or loathe him) who manages to motivate and train seemingly 'average' players to perform well above their pay grade.

Warnock is a footballing dinosaur that plays exactly the same way whatever club he manages.

I was having a chat with a Cardiff supporting friend of mine a while back and I asked them 'Do you honestly enjoy watching that rubbish, week in week out'? Their reply was 'Not really, but it get's results'. And there's the rub.

It's not that difficult to assemble a squad of old big physical late 20's early 30's pro's at the top of or just past the peak of their career, get them organised defensively and bombard the opposition box with aerial balls from set pieces. It's often effective and does get results but there's 3 problems with it: 1/ Whilst the transfer fees may be minimal, the wages are excessive with little or no return on investment come selling time. So it's expensive in terms of an on-going wage bill. 2/ It's ugly football to watch and a lot of people (myself included) don't like watching it. 3/ It doesn't work at higher levels (the Premiership) because it contains sides with enough quality players to undo those kind of tactics.

This is precisely the reason why Warnock is good at getting sides promoted from lower divisions but fails miserably when he gets them into the Premiership because those tactics don't work there. It's a very risky strategy because it relies heavily on achieving promotion to the Premiership and the massive pay off that gives because if that isn't achieved the owners end up dropping large amounts of money into a black hole and the club going into debt.

That's a world away from scouting skilful talented youngsters, coaching them to play a possession based, attacking playing style and then profiting from their resale to support the club financially in terms of its annual running costs.

 

[BerksBee]

A few years ago the bosses at Southampton were incredibly smug about their ability to sign good players cheaply and sell them on for huge profit. But suddenly they realised they no longer had any decent players and they've been s*** scared of relegation ever since.

Since January 2000, Southampton have had 23 managers. Over the last 8 years, they've had 8 managers.

So basically Southampton are changing their manager every year.

Look no further than a completely messed up owner/board of directors for Southampton's problems. You can't change your manager every year and expect to be successful.

 

[malcolms]

Warnock is a footballing dinosaur that plays exactly the same way whatever club he manages.

I was having a chat with a Cardiff supporting friend of mine a while back and I asked them 'Do you honestly enjoy watching that rubbish, week in week out'? Their reply was 'Not really, but it get's results'. And there's the rub.

It's not that difficult to assemble a squad of old big physical late 20's early 30's pro's at the top of or just past the peak of their career, get them organised defensively and bombard the opposition box with aerial balls from set pieces. It's often effective and does get results but there's 3 problems with it: 1/ Whilst the transfer fees may be minimal, the wages are excessive with little or no return on investment come selling time. So it's expensive in terms of an on-going wage bill. 2/ It's ugly football to watch and a lot of people (myself included) don't like watching it. 3/ It doesn't work at higher levels (the Premiership) because it contains sides with enough quality players to undo those kind of tactics.

This is precisely the reason why Warnock is good at getting sides promoted from lower divisions but fails miserably when he gets them into the Premiership because those tactics don't work there. It's a very risky strategy because it relies heavily on achieving promotion to the Premiership and the massive pay off that gives because if that isn't achieved the owners end up dropping large amounts of money into a black hole and the club going into debt.

That's a world away from scouting skilful talented youngsters, coaching them to play a possession based, attacking playing style and then profiting from their resale to support the club financially in terms of its annual running costs.

What a pretentious lot of ********...Warnock has been a coach for 30 years and some idiot from Berkshire thinks he knows better...It may well be that he would play this way even if he had access to clubs like Chelsea and the wealth they possess, but it's not proven. In the meantime I think a little respect is due from someone who supports a club that resides at the arse end of Kew and has to go back along, long, way to remember any real success....

 

[BerksBee]

I always thought at the end of the season the table doesn't lie, Whether you use different metrics or whatever, If you've got the least points you're relegated

Yes indeed.

But my comment (you've taken out of context) was in reference to making player buyer decisions in January not based on league position but on what their metrics tell them about performances and whether promotion or play off place is likely or not.

The problem with stats and metrics is that they don't factor in good old fashioned luck or bad luck, that plays such a huge part of the outcome of a football match. A good example was the recent Man City v Liverpool game where Liverpool's shot in the first half comes back out off the post and City's shot goes in off the post. Reverse those two and the outcome (and potentially the title further down the line) could well have been different.

So by looking to remove the luck factor that the league table includes and only looking at the actual performance metrics should give a good indication of likely final league position, because over the course of a season the influence on table position of good/bad luck should regress or advance to the mean.

 

[IndoMike]

These Brentford fans really think they know it all. You'd think they'd qualified for the Champion's League, rather than be in the lower half of the Championship and not a mile away from meeting us in Div 1. Yes, they have done well in recent years. No, they are not a special club because they are not Trust-owned but living off the leftovers of the owner's meal. No, they are not a special club because they self-confessedly take a small risk by hoovering up lower-league players with the aim of selling for a profit - more similar to a 2nd hand car dealership.
They really do need tp realize that to the rest of the world Brentford is not special and not setting any particular standard. Exeter City gets more mention in the national press than Brentford, especially for its considerable success in developing young players.

 

[BerksBee]

What a pretentious lot of ********...Warnock has been a coach for 30 years and some idiot from Berkshire thinks he knows better...

I didn't say I knew better. I simply said I don't like the style of football he plays or the tactics he employs.

It's only my opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with it!

 

[Terryhall]

Have to say I think the comments on Warnock are absolutely spot on. As a comparison I think we would all agree that some footballers thrive in the Championship but just cannot make the technical, physical or tactical (or all three) jump that is needed to step up to the Premier League (e.g. Jordan Rhodes, Gary Hooper, Steve Bull back in the day) Why should it not be the same for managers?

Over the years it's an unavoidable fact that Warnock has a fixed style of play which he consistently reverts to at all of his teams- nothing wrong with that and there isn't any one right way to play the game (and for what its worth it is described excellently above too). It works in the Championship and Warnock is good at getting promoted from that league. It doesn't work in the Premier League and Warnocks sides always struggle in that league.

The Championship is his level - nothing wrong with that either but lets not put lipstick on a pig, especially a pig like Colin.