Julian Tagg

[Squeezebox]

Oh come on. No confidence in the Trust board because of the last couple of months? Seriously? We go through this every time there’s a setback: fold the Trust, sweep everyone out, the Trust is useless.

At the moment we have a board that has been a bit slow to sack a manager who they clearly want to give time to. Do I think they’ve been too generous on him? Yes. Do I think it‘s cause for us to completely overhaul our ownership model? Absolutely not.

This is the first managerial appointment the Trust / board have stuffed up: plenty of evidence to suggest he wasn’t the right fit for the club and more than enough evidence this season that he’s not the right manager (or even a manager). Yet the number of times I can remember our fanbase howling in despair when we appoint yet other unknown and untested manager, and yet they’ve largely turned out ok or better than ok. We were inevitably going to get one wrong at some point.

And yet we now have the club in its healthiest financial position I can remember since I started supporting City some 30 odd years ago and in the 3rd tier, which is not our natural home, like it or not. Oddly, I think the appointment of Caldwell was a show of ambition that hasn’t worked, but hey ho.

Taggy has never been the best person at PR, and this is far from the first time deaf interview he’s given at times where we’ve been a bit wobbly. But again, does it mean that the Trust is a busted flush and that we should be bundling him out the door to the glue factory? Absolutely not. Charitably I can see this as at attempt to rally the fanbase that sadly failed to read the room.

The Trust has done some stuff ups. The way the Tisdale vote was handled was pretty dire, for example. But we are in a better state than we were since they took over and even in the past five years. Which is more than can be said for the majority of football league owners.

I was much more worried for the future of the club and the Trust model when the Norrie Stewart era was here and the Trust felt like it had lost sense of what it was trying to achieve.

Today, I’m rather grumpy that we have a bad team and a bad manager and I’d rather he was defenestrated soonish before he wastes any more money in January. But there’s still time to turn the season around, even if the equivocations and communication from the Club are frustrating.

But declaring the whole project dead and buried? Yeah, nah mate. It’s a deeply annoying position to be in but out of the many positions we’ve been in such the Trust started, it’s by no means the most dire.

Great post mate. We have stability not a super rich sugar daddy who may have decided in the present circumstances to up sticks and put his money elsewhere, leaving us.......

 

[edwin_price]

But declaring the whole project dead and buried? Yeah, nah mate. It’s a deeply annoying position to be in but out of the many positions we’ve been in such the Trust started, it’s by no means the most dire.

I'm not there, but there are signs of trouble, in my opinion, and, while people within the club might be going hell for leather working to solve the problems, the communications are all about looking at what we've achieved, recognising that a relegation scrap in league one is far from the worst situation the clubs been in, look at how our club finances shape up against other clubs, stability etc.

My position is: great. Let's keep it that way.

But I feel like there are a lot of assumptions underpinning some of the bigger-picture positivity, that I'm not sure hold -

1. If we go down, we'll spend next season somewhere around the top half of the table in league two and then medium term, we'll find ourselves challenging to get back up again
2. The conveyor belt of young talent that has produced regular windfalls will inevitably keep turning
3. If Gary Caldwell leaves, the next guy will be an excellent manager

Feel sometimes that the resistance to knee-jerk reactions within the club is a little but too strong. What is happening is quite alarming, from where I'm looking. I'm seeing a club absolutely plummeting... more of a Chesterfield vibe than an Accrington vibe. None of the news beyond the first team performances seems to be good, either. Don't want to bin the trust. I want some reassurance that processes are in place to make sure we rediscover how to be competitive at multiple levels and the pride at our past achievements is put on the shelf for a bit while we untangle the mess. Please stop explaining to a fanbase who are desperate for things to be fixed that they are unique because they are relatively undemanding.

*for clarity, GIW, the last sentence is not supposed to be an instruction directed at you!

 

[GrecianInWales]

I'm not there, but there are signs of trouble, in my opinion, and, while people within the club might be going hell for leather working to solve the problems, the communications are all about looking at what we've achieved, recognising that a relegation scrap in league one is far from the worst situation the clubs been in, look at how our club finances shape up against other clubs, stability etc.

My position is: great. Let's keep it that way.

But I feel like there are a lot of assumptions underpinning some of the bigger-picture positivity, that I'm not sure hold -

1. If we go down, we'll spend next season somewhere around the top half of the table in league two and then medium term, we'll find ourselves challenging to get back up again
2. The conveyor belt of young talent that has produced regular windfalls will inevitably keep turning
3. If Gary Caldwell leaves, the next guy will be an excellent manager

Feel sometimes that the resistance to knee-jerk reactions within the club is a little but too strong. What is happening is quite alarming, from where I'm looking. I'm seeing a club absolutely plummeting... more of a Chesterfield vibe than an Accrington vibe. None of the news beyond the first team performances seems to be good, either. Don't want to bin the trust. I want some reassurance that processes are in place to make sure we rediscover how to be competitive at multiple levels and the pride at our past achievements is put on the shelf for a bit while we untangle the mess. Please stop explaining to a fanbase who are desperate for things to be fixed that they are unique because they are relatively undemanding.

Don’t disagree with a lot of this, especially the last sentence. And I’d totally agree on the assumptions being dangerous. I don’t think it’s by any means nailed on that we would have a right to be challenging at the top, that our academy will produce another windfall, and that our next manager will be the messiah (although he can’t be much worse than our current one).

if anything, I think our squad needs a thorough overhaul, so we’re probably a couple of years away from challenging for promotion if we went down. in L1 we might just be able to get a better calibre of player, although momentum is a tough thing to regain when it’s lost

Not sure that we’d do a double plummet though: there’s a lot of worse clubs than us below. I’d rather have the Trust in charge than Crawley’s crypto bros or Bradford’s slow decline.

Probably the main thing we need is some mea culpas at board level or at least a level of self awareness - this may already be present. They’d be far from the first owners or even Trust board members who have private concerns that differ from the language used externally.

Ultimately, I always see the Trust as playing a longer game. That sometimes leads to inertia or a neglect of the short term (again, far from the first club or business to do this) but it’s fixable and we (probably? Possibly? Maybe?) have an (ok? Good? Decent? Above average?) set of people in charge.

We don’t need to be perfect. In this league, good enough is probably good enough. We need to be better than our fellow relegation candidates first off (no easy task given current form) and then take stock to get back on track.

 

[Grecian Max]

@GrecianInWales

I think you have written well in the last two posts. I do agree a lot with what you're saying, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's still a lot of potential in having fans represented at board level - however I would keep banging the drum that there must be an evolution of this to acheive that long term success and safety.

I think, like edwin has said - there are some underlying issues that aren't being addressed, and it's this - coupled with the inaction we're currently seeing that leaves me concerned about that "smugplacency" mentioned elsewhere.

We could easily slip 2 leagues, for sure. You don't need to be a basket case these days for it to happen. Would I rather the Trust in charge than dodgy crypto money? For sure. Not sure that's a great point of comparison to what we could be.

The current situation is playing out exactly as I thought it would - no action, no movement. This isn't a good look. The whole model depends in the fanbase believing in it, or at least a large percentage.

I think most alarmingly is the lack competitive noises that come out of the club - we are in pro sport after all and not a charity. We get it, we can't afford much, we get volunteers to do a bunch of things - we sell that rag tag team of misfits narrative out to the nationals every big cup game we get. I think after 20 years I want to see strong next steps. They did well with the modest additions to the stadium and the more impressive training ground.

What's the grand vision for us to buy into? I understood it well in 2003, even more so in 2005. Maybe I was on my own with this but I never envisaged we'd stick with what is essentially the same set up, other than less power for the Trust board. My assumption was we'd keep going until we'd grown out of it and seek ££ for next steps. At some point there will be a change, and I'd rather it be on our terms than forced upon us.

 

[edwin_price]

I'm not convinced we're immune from going non-league. Look at FGR. Don't think they're spending massively less than we would be next season. We'd go down with a load of expensive league one deadwood on the books, that the new manager won't be able to shift. One thing I'm extremely keen on is ensuring that we don't add to this in January. FGR is a cautionary tale on both smugness at success and going bananas in January. Compare and contrast with Morecambe/Accrington who had reasonable sides that weren't quite good enough to hit 19th. Both doing well this season. I don't feel we're in this kind of shape.

Remaining trust run or under private ownership, it doesn't matter... still have to keep evolving and getting better. The past 15 years have been characterised by this drive. It feels now that we're in the stage of looking back on it all with a winsome smile. We need to keep competitive and ruthless or reality will chew us up and spit us out. Long term success and safety is a fantasy under any model. You've got to keep sprinting on the treadmill.... stop for a fag break and you're done for very very quickly.

 

[Egg]

FYI, if edwin_price, Grecian Max, and GrecianInWales were to stand for election to the Trust board I'd vote for all three of them without a moment's hesitation. Apppreciate Max is moving to Mexico, and GIW is, I believe, Down Under, so this might be easier said than done, but wonder if Edwin could have his arm twisted to stand for election in 2024[?].

 

[CTA]

Oh come on. No confidence in the Trust board because of the last couple of months? Seriously? We go through this every time there’s a setback: fold the Trust, sweep everyone out, the Trust is useless.

At the moment we have a board that has been a bit slow to sack a manager who they clearly want to give time to. Do I think they’ve been too generous on him? Yes. Do I think it‘s cause for us to completely overhaul our ownership model? Absolutely not.

This is the first managerial appointment the Trust / board have stuffed up: plenty of evidence to suggest he wasn’t the right fit for the club and more than enough evidence this season that he’s not the right manager (or even a manager). Yet the number of times I can remember our fanbase howling in despair when we appoint yet other unknown and untested manager, and yet they’ve largely turned out ok or better than ok. We were inevitably going to get one wrong at some point.

And yet we now have the club in its healthiest financial position I can remember since I started supporting City some 30 odd years ago and in the 3rd tier, which is not our natural home, like it or not. Oddly, I think the appointment of Caldwell was a show of ambition that hasn’t worked, but hey ho.

Taggy has never been the best person at PR, and this is far from the first time deaf interview he’s given at times where we’ve been a bit wobbly. But again, does it mean that the Trust is a busted flush and that we should be bundling him out the door to the glue factory? Absolutely not. Charitably I can see this as at attempt to rally the fanbase that sadly failed to read the room.

The Trust has done some stuff ups. The way the Tisdale vote was handled was pretty dire, for example. But we are in a better state than we were since they took over and even in the past five years. Which is more than can be said for the majority of football league owners.

I was much more worried for the future of the club and the Trust model when the Norrie Stewart era was here and the Trust felt like it had lost sense of what it was trying to achieve.

Today, I’m rather grumpy that we have a bad team and a bad manager and I’d rather he was defenestrated soonish before he wastes any more money in January. But there’s still time to turn the season around, even if the equivocations and communication from the Club are frustrating.

But declaring the whole project dead and buried? Yeah, nah mate. It’s a deeply annoying position to be in but out of the many positions we’ve been in such the Trust started, it’s by no means the most dire.

You make some very good points. I’ve largely been proud of our Trust model but the current situation worries me about the fault lines that exist. Better than a dodgy owner for sure, but we need
to strive for improvement and not just be glad that we have survived (which is the position of some). There’s a constant under current about lack of ambition amongst the progressives and I feel we need some fresh leadership to take the club forward and appeal to fans of the future.

 

[edwin_price]

FYI, if edwin_price, Grecian Max, and GrecianInWales were to stand for election to the Trust board I'd vote for all three of them without a moment's hesitation. Apppreciate Max is moving to Mexico, and GIW is, I believe, Down Under, so this might be easier said than done, but wonder if Edwin could have his arm twisted to stand for election in 2024[?].

Appreciate that Egg, but I suspect what Julian Tagg says is absolutely true: that wanging on non-stop on a football forum is a lot easier than actually running the club. Suspect I wouldn't be brilliant at it. If you want to avoid dilettantes, choose someone who's not on a football forum during work hours!

 

[Gordon Dale]

There are many justifiable concerns for Trust members mostly stemming from a lack of transparency and what has appeared to be a side-lining of The Trust since Denise Watts stood down as Chair.

Whatever one's views on this subject...in the final analysis ECFC is not Tagg's club. Throughout his tenure in various roles he has been a paid employee . To his credit he has never denied that and indeed I recall him publicly acknowledging the income he was deriving from our club at a Trust AGM . However , as a paid employee he is ultimately accountable to the club whose major shareholder is The Trust. End of.

Irrespective of who is or is not running the show ...The major concerns at the moment for me are :-

1. a manager who has undoubtedly lost the dressing room and , following yesterday's court hearing, appears to be in breach of contract

2. an Academy , which has undoubtedly been the club's key source of additional income, which now appears to be struggling

Both these two issues will hopefully be addressed if and when Dan Green is relieved of his First Team Coaching Duties at Rotherham . Could be that is what The Board are waiting for and indeed not dithering 'while Rome burns'? I sincerely hope so.

 

[edwin_price]

Both these two issues will hopefully be addressed if and when Dan Green is relieved of his First Team Coaching Duties at Rotherham . Could be that is what The Board are waiting for and indeed not dithering 'while Rome burns'? I sincerely hope so.

I don't know if the academy is struggling... I'm just picking up negative vibes. But there's always a lot of negative vibes about when the teams playing so poorly.

As for Dan Green.... is this an ayahuasca dream journey, or have you got some kind of reason for thinking he's coming back here?