Politics Today

[Mr Jinx]

How is The lib dems being screwed by the Tories on AV Labours fault? The libs should have insisted on PR at the general election in return for their support in the coalition government

If Labour had put their full weight behind AV at the time (you know, passionately, a la Blair), it would've stood a really good chance. But Ed decided to stick with the status quo, and with some gusto too. It left Clegg completly on his own.

 

[Suzi & The Banned Cheese]

What was voted on was a stupid ill thought out idea that would never have worked, What we need is a grown up conversation about the voting system, Perhaps an independent Royal Comssion with their verdict legally binding otherwise we just get incompetant Government all the time.

Although it seemed like drafted on a fag packet, the proposals were based on years of work on the issue by respected Libdem Roy Jenkins.

 

[DB9]

If Labour had put their full weight behind AV at the time (you know, passionately, a la Blair), it would've stood a really good chance. But Ed decided to stick with the status quo, and with some gusto too.

Twaddle, Cameron knew AV was a vote loser, The public weren't convinced by it, Only 42% of the voting public turned out to vote, It was 67.9% to 32.1% in favour of rejecting it, Nothing to do with Labour at all, It was a flawed system and successfully argued that way.

 

[DB9]

Although it seemed like drafted on a fag packet, the proposals were based on years of work on the issue by respected Libdem Roy Jenkins.

Yep but R Jenkins was a Politician of the past, AV is not for the 21st Century imo.

 

[Mr Jinx]

Twaddle, Cameron knew AV was a vote loser, The public weren't convinced by it, Only 42% of the voting public turned out to vote, It was 67.9% to 32.1% in favour of rejecting it, Nothing to do with Labour at all, It was a flawed system and successfully argued that way.

And that's it - you hit the nail on the head.

Ed (and Labour) agreed with the Tory argument. If it hadn't and vociferously went the other way, who knows....the voting could've been 48/52 the other way.

AV wasn't perfect but hardly extremely flawed (especially when compared with FPTP). It's not too dissimilar to what we had for the EU elections.

 

[arthur]

Although it seemed like drafted on a fag packet, the proposals were based on years of work on the issue by respected Libdem Roy Jenkins.

This is simply untrue. The Jenkins report suggested AV plus top up seats (as they have in Scotland); AV on its own is not a proportional system

 

[DB9]

And that's it - you hit the nail on the head.

Ed (and Labour) agreed with the Tory argument. If it hadn't and vociferously went the other way, who knows....the voting could've been 48/52 the other way.

AV wasn't perfect but hardly extremely flawed (especially when compared with FPTP). It's not too dissimilar to what we had for the EU elections.

It didn't so your argument doesn't stand and to blame Labour is purely wrong.

 

[arthur]

Don't you know Suzi, In Jinxy's world everything is Labour's fault.

Jinx has a point. Such was Labour's loathing for the Lib Dems that they pretty much refused to campaign for a change in the system. A few years later Corbyn's loathing of the Tories meant that Labour barely campaigned against Brexit. One day the party might learn to raise its eyes from its navel when it comes to making common cause with others

 

[DB9]

Jinx has a point. Such was Labour's loathing for the Lib Dems that they pretty much refused to campaign for a change in the system. A few years later Corbyn's loathing of the Tories meant that Labour barely campaigned against Brexit. One day the party might learn to raise its eyes from its navel when it comes to making common cause with others

I don't remember it that way, They'd just lost the 2010 GE, New leader and tbh i don't think they wanted to be on a losing side again so quickly plus my point that the public weren't up for AV as the numbers suggested.

 

[arthur]

I don't remember it that way, They'd just lost the 2010 GE, New leader and tbh i don't think they wanted to be on a losing side again so quickly plus my point that the public weren't up for AV as the numbers suggested.

Just thought I'd check - here's what the BBC said in 2011

Labour leader Ed Miliband is supporting the Yes campaign for changing the electoral system, believing it is fairer than the current situation and good for democracy and accountability.

Other senior figures such as Alan Johnson also support AV, but the party as a whole is divided on the issue, with more than 100 Labour MPs saying they oppose such a change.

Several current shadow cabinet members, including John Healey and Caroline Flint, as well former ministers such as David Blunkett, Lord Prescott and Margaret Beckett, are actively campaigning against AV.

Gordon Brown offered the Lib Dems a referendum on voting reform as part of their own coalition negotiations after May's election.

The party flirted with voting reform as an issue before coming to power in 1997, asking the late Lord Jenkins to head a review into the subject.

But his conclusions in 1998 were largely ignored and critics say Labour only returned to the issue when the party looked set to leave power.

The last two sentences are telling. And the party's diehard refuseniks like Blunkett, Prescott and Straw still held sway against what was obviously a weak leader. Interesting that the loathsome Flint was on the wrong side of the debate - not in the least bit surprising!