Politics Today

[iscalad]

No wonder he did so disastrously if


Mike you are old enough to remember that has been tried before in similar circumstances & more recently to no effect on the electorate.

Going back to Politics Live today,interesting that Corbyn was seen as not patriotic in Labour heartlands.

No wonder he did so disastrously if


Mike you are old enough to remember that has been tried before in similar circumstances & more recently to no effect on the electorate.

Going back to Politics Live today,interesting that Corbyn was seen as not patriotic in Labour heartlands.

That'll teach him to watch the Queen in the morning

 

[arthur]

. Will there be a new party formed to cater for the centre left ? Disaffected labour + liberals might be interested. Might sound far-fetched, but we're living in strange political times.

Not far fetched at all.

In all the rage, mine included, about Corbyn and his appalling clique, little attention has been focused on the dire state of the Liberal Democrats. The relatively stable, politically consistent party of Paddy Ashdown in 1997, which opposed the war and gained in strength then indulged in a well meaning but disastrous coalition with the Conservatives, who repaid their support by having them for breakfast. An intelligent, able leader was replaced by the out of his depth Farron and the totally out of her depth Swinson. Policy making and political direction veered all over the place, in an unthinking knee jerk search for votes which ended in disaster. The party is utterly washed out and directionless. Nevertheless it does retain a membership and activist base, most of whom are comfortably left of centre, much as Ashdown was quietly to the left of Blair. And most of the few Lib Dem MPs are thoroughly reasonable people

The state of the Labour Party is more obviously apparent. It stems largely from the structural defect of having an essentially parliamentary operation led by a non parliamentary leadership clique, chosen by non parliamentary members (Clause 1 of the Labour Party Constitution says Its purpose is to organise and maintain in Parliament and in the country a political Labour Party ). It is the MPs, who do the campaigning and talking to their constituents, who have known this was coming for a long time and unless they see real change at the top of the party, rather than just a changing of the figurehead, I don't see how they can carry on taking the whip. (The Conservatives don't have this problem - if their MPs perceive that their leader is a liability (IDS) they simply get rid of them)

So it all depends on what the Labour Party members do, and this is the great unknown. Are they diehard Corbyn loyalists, who think Labour lost because of Brexit and the media? Or are they people who want to see a Labour Party that is capable of winning election, and positively welcomes the prospect of Tory voters voting for it?

If McCluskey et al retain their grip on the Labour Party then I think it's inevitable (or should be) that Starmer, Thornberry and Jess Phillips lead the mass exodus from the PLP that Tom Watson promised but failed to deliver. They can join the Lib Dems, who can take the opportunity to dissolve themselves (Farron observed that they had become a toxic brand some time ago) and form a new United Liberal Left. If that were competently led and managed (unlike Change UK, with its Soubrys and Umunas) it would give Johnson and Cummings a run for their money, and provide hope to millions

 

[arthur]

Mike you are old enough to remember that has been tried before in similar circumstances & more recently to no effect on the electorate.

Olds, that was in the eighties when there was such a thing as a Labour core vote. If the last election has taught us anything, it's that this doesn't exist any more

 

[Oldsmobile-88]

Meeting of the PLP tomorrow night in the HoC.
It’s going to be a fractious affair.
JC has a lot of explaining to do,i doubt the excuses trotted out so far will wash with most Labour MPs.

 

[arthur]

This does strike me as very high risk indeed. The only trade deal he'll be able to negotiate in such a short time is one which keeps things pretty much as they are, or gives the EU everything they demand. Or a no deal exit and one of only four countries in the world not in a trading bloc with their neighbours. Do you Brexiter people think this is a good idea?

Brexit: Boris Johnson will amend bill to outlaw extension

Legal block on finalising deal after 2020 removes safety net below negotiations with EU

www.theguardian.com

 

[DB9]

Meeting of the PLP tomorrow night in the HoC.
It’s going to be a fractious affair.
JC has a lot of explaining to do,i doubt the excuses trotted out so far will wash with most Labour MPs.

To be a fly on the wall for that

 

[IndoMike]

No wonder he did so disastrously if


Mike you are old enough to remember that has been tried before in similar circumstances & more recently to no effect on the electorate.

Going back to Politics Live today,interesting that Corbyn was seen as not patriotic in Labour heartlands.

Yes, Olds, I know. But I think the difference now is that it is scores of Labour MPs who have lost their seats and now have no political home. I can"t see them all disappearing from the political scene.
You're right that it's been tried before, but the result of this latest "seismic" election result is different from situations before: it's not just a gaggle of MPs that have been disaffected. And a creation of a new party need not be rushed : they can take their time and build because Johnson is here for at least 5 years.
Anyway, I'm just speculating. Fascinating times!

 

[Alistair20000]

The Lady Nugee would have an unfair weight advantage it has to be said.

Do you mean that because she is built like a prize bull or that she can summon up her hubbie Sir Chris Nugee the High Court judge to put the boot into the fragrant Flint ?

 

[tavyred]

Do you mean that because she is built like a prize bull or that she can summon up her hubbie Sir Chris Nugee the High Court judge to put the boot into the fragrant Flint ?

It’s the former Al.
Although I do recall her as Shadow Defence Secretary having to answer difficult questions about her involvement with a law firm who specialised in targeting British Soldiers for alleged war crimes. The hard left hates the British military.

 

[Mr Jinx]

Politics Live, 16/12/2019: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000cfdt via @bbciplayer

Gave it a listen. He's coming out with pretty much the same stuff as Caroline Flint but he too hits the nail squarely on the head.