Well as it go to town on the Scouse tonight.....

[Phil Sayers]

Are Millwall fans now regularly described as being 'the best in the world?'

It was hearing that phrase, yet again, last night that prompted me to start this thread - perhaps unwisely. In the media vocabularly the word Heysel has been quietly 1984'd as it doesn't suite the image of Liverpool that they (I really have no idea why) wish to portray.

I apologise if it has caused any offense to Cranchandy as it stupidly did not occur to me that this might be read by somebody directly affected.

 

[forever grecian]

Don't a lot of fans consider themselves as the best in the world? I think Liverpool fans are only regularly described as being 'best in the world' or whatever set of words you want to use simply because they are loud in voice and get behind their team a lot, being a very positive effect.

You also can't condemn a whole set of fans for a minority that cause trouble.

 

[IBA]

Well said FG, time to end this thread on a sensible note.

 

[angelic upstart]

Phil,you are granted your opion of the hysel troubles,but I was there ,not behind the goal but from the stand on the right.For about an hour before the big crush, fans on the Italian side started to throw rocks and rubble at the English fans,I say English because a lot of the fans were not Liverpool fans but just there to support an English team .The police did nothing to stop the italians from throwing objects.The English fans had enough by now and started to throw back the rocks,a guy then from the Italian side produced a gun and atempted to fire it towards the English,I have only seen that incident again once before and I wander why this is never brought up.Then of course the tragic events unfolded English fans started to push towards the Italians and they retreated to the side where the wall was and then it collapsed.It could have easily been the other way round and English fans got crushed.There were just as many Italian hoolagans as English and we can never change history but I dont know of any set of fans who would not protect there friends and there own safty.I am not making excuses but there should have been proper segragation the police sholud have stopped the rock throwing,they should have stopped the English fans from pushing and the ground should have been made safe before the kick off.Trust me most of the people in the crowd were punished enough just by being there so to keep and still blame all Liverpool fans 25 years on is in my opion unjust.Lets all prey this kind of accident never happens again.

Just out of interest how do you know there were lots of fans of other clubs there? Funny how that sort of thing didn't happen at any other point in time other than at Heysel.

 

[josh4ecfc64]

I belive the stand where a lot of the fans were in was a neutral stand.

I have been to Liverpool before, not for a proper match but for the Fa cup final where Liverpool lost 2-1 in the first leg.

About 25 000 Liverpool turned up which was impressive... The support was all local based, surrounding area, very working class as it should be. The locals were friendly as and it was a breath of fresh air from the stuck up people of Devon.

Every club has hooligans and lager loud
If any other English team would have been in Heysel that day the same would of happened... It was doomed from the start, awful terracing puts into perspective when people moan about all seater stadiums.

The tragedy of Hillsbourough should never be forgotten and alongside the Bradford fir & Heysel are the worst football disasters in the last 50 or so years...

RIP to all.

 

[Phil Sayers]

The support was all local based, surrounding area, very working class as it should be. The locals were friendly as and it was a breath of fresh air from the stuck up people of Devon.

I was too young for it all (perhaps not even born) but I have spoken to many City fans who say Anfield is the worst place they have ever been. Friendly?? Try running around with knives stabbing everything moving.

 

[angelic upstart]

Every club has hooligans and lager loud
If any other English team would have been in Heysel that day the same would of happened... It was doomed from the start, awful terracing puts into perspective when people moan about all seater stadiums.

It is worth noting that of 11 finals in European competitions in the previous 10 finals only 2 did not have an English team in. It is also worth noting Arsenal played Valencia in Heysel in 1980. No trouble was reported.

 

[Phil Sayers]

You also can't condemn a whole set of fans for a minority that cause trouble.

If you ask me Liverpool fans fall into three different categories and the same with ManUnited, Chelsea etc....

1. Real fans. By and large these people are scum but proper supporters. It is this category that were responsible for Heysel and the like.

2. Fans since 1996. These people travel from all over the country to 'support' Liverpool. They have priced category 1 out of the game.

3. Armchair supporters. These people are also scum. They claim to be Liverpool fans but generally they just sit in the pub and annoy you with how little they know about football.

 

[journeyman]

I don't really see the motivation behind this thread aside from a general dislike of Liverpool, which is usually fuelled by a social stereotype rather than any personal experience of living in the particular place. This extends to football clubs- I don't particularly know why people have such a dislike of Liverpool FC. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that Liverpool were involved in both Heysel and Hillsborough is a coincidence. In fact, the 'safety' restrictions that followed Heysel were in a large part responsible for the death of the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough.
Now, I know enough about Hillsborough and Heysel to produce a reasonably well informed commentary on the issue(s). The proposition that drunk fans worsened the situation at the Leppings Lane End in '89 is a myth. I draw many of the same conclusions from Heysel- any club could have been involved such was the extent of hooliganism in the 80s. I could go in detail on these issues, but I'm not going to.
Thankfully, times have changed enough and grounds have 'improved' to such an extent that I don't believe we will see similar situations in grounds in the future. It is just sad that we required several incidents and the deaths of hundreds to serve as a wake up call. However, I feel that labelling Liverpool as the perpetrators of anything is too far, and is a by-product of the 'regional racism' which I mentioned earlier.
As for the argument that they're the best supported club or whatever, I don't think that's relevant/appropriate in any way.

 

[forever grecian]

"Real fans. By and large these people are scum but proper supporters. It is this category that were responsible for Heysel and the like."

So by your notion, any 'real liverpool fan' was responsible for Heysel. All real liverpool fans are also 'by and large scum'. And i suppose that all 'real liverpool fans' run around in shell suits shouting 'ay ay ay' and all live in council flats. Stupid stereotyping. Utter bullsh*t. Think about what you write before you post it because that is a ridiculous comment.