Things you dont see anymore

Colesman Ballz

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I thought it had to be rebuilt as closely as possible to the original.
Yes I think that is broadly true. Owners of Listed Buildings are responsible in law for their upkeep/preservation, and any new owner would take over the liability which of course would be tremendously expensive. If they are unable to sell it on, the responsibility remains with Brownsword. The Council should be able to take legal action, or possibly even undertake repairs and recharge the cost. All avenues are going to be an extremely lengthy process, cost a packet and be a very messy business. I could even forsee the possibility of Brownsword having to pay someone to take it off their hands. I think the scar on the historical jewel that is the Cathedral Close will be with us for many years to come.
 

Grecian2K

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Must admit that the conflagration at the Plaza did bemuse me somewhat. After all it must take some exceptional muckwupery to set fire to a swimming pool. Even Mr Brittas, in his pomp, didn't shoehorn that into his sitcom.

Still (even though I know he won't read this!!!) the previous poster should sleep easy. Work has been going on recently to continue he restoration, albeit at a slow pace. Scaffolding is now up and teams of casual workers have been spotted carrying teacups of water up from the Exe ready for the grand refilling. And, at least, the money making (?) health club bit surprisingly escaped Ye Greate Fyre of Alphington St and has continued trading throughout.
 

Grecian2K

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Incidentally it might be worth considering that the Main Contactors who happen to have be (independently!) engaged to initiate both projects (Kier) have been, for the last few months, preoccupied with much larger, and well publicised, financial concerns.
So I wouldn't imagine that a couple of tiny projects in a small provincial City would have attracted too much priority in the boardroom?
 

Alistair20000

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Yes I think that is broadly true. Owners of Listed Buildings are responsible in law for their upkeep/preservation, and any new owner would take over the liability which of course would be tremendously expensive. If they are unable to sell it on, the responsibility remains with Brownsword. The Council should be able to take legal action, or possibly even undertake repairs and recharge the cost. All avenues are going to be an extremely lengthy process, cost a packet and be a very messy business. I could even forsee the possibility of Brownsword having to pay someone to take it off their hands. I think the scar on the historical jewel that is the Cathedral Close will be with us for many years to come.
Is there not insurance to cover the rebuilding ?

I wonder if the property is in a separate company that Brownsword can just put into liquidation to frustrate any claim the Council might try to make.

I smell a rat here.
 

Colesman Ballz

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Is there not insurance to cover the rebuilding ?

I wonder if the property is in a separate company that Brownsword can just put into liquidation to frustrate any claim the Council might try to make.

I smell a rat here.
Interestingly The Royal Clarence has been removed from Abode's website. They own 12 other hotels, of which I suspect 11 or 12 are almost certainly listed buildings. so they are not without means, although as you say, whether it is in a separate company could be pivotal. I can't imagine it wasn't insured, but do wonder if it was seriously under insured ? Despite the "well meaning" spin of the their statement, quite obviously it is a purely commercial decision that was made. If I were a local resident in Canterbury, Bath, Glasgow, Manchester etc I would be pretty worried about whether the listed buildings in their care were in safe hands.

Talking of Buildings Insurance, I am intrigued with Exeter City Council's position on the Clifton Sports Centre. I have never seen any reference to insurance cover mentioned. When the roof collapsed under the weight of snow, surely if cover existed it was a simple claim job to have it repaired ? Was it adequately insured ? If so did the Council just seize on the opportunity to sell off the larger area of the site, and also"pocket" the insurance money, presumably to help fund the escalating costs of their mahoosive vanity project that is St Sidwell's Point ?
 

Alistair20000

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Interestingly The Royal Clarence has been removed from Abode's website. They own 12 other hotels, of which I suspect 11 or 12 are almost certainly listed buildings. so they are not without means, although as you say, whether it is in a separate company could be pivotal. I can't imagine it wasn't insured, but do wonder if it was seriously under insured ? Despite the "well meaning" spin of the their statement, quite obviously it is a purely commercial decision that was made. If I were a local resident in Canterbury, Bath, Glasgow, Manchester etc I would be pretty worried about whether the listed buildings in their care were in safe hands.

Talking of Buildings Insurance, I am intrigued with Exeter City Council's position on the Clifton Sports Centre. I have never seen any reference to insurance cover mentioned. When the roof collapsed under the weight of snow, surely if cover existed it was a simple claim job to have it repaired ? Was it adequately insured ? If so did the Council just seize on the opportunity to sell off the larger area of the site, and also"pocket" the insurance money, presumably to help fund the escalating costs of their mahoosive vanity project that is St Sidwell's Point ?

A question to put to the Council there Mr Ballz (on the Clifton Sports Centre) with a FOI request if they do not reply fully.
 

Hants_red

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Do councils insure? I know in the civil service we didn't, as it didn't make financial sense.
 

Oldsmobile-88

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Do councils insure? I know in the civil service we didn't, as it didn't make financial sense.
I know that the company that I used to work for only insured their vehicles 3rd Party(the legal minimum) because with a fleet of 500 vehicles the cost of full insurance was prohibiting..It was cheaper to take the hit if a vehicle was damaged or written off if it was the employee at fault..I expect a lot of other companies do the same.

The risk that way can work out less costly in the long run.
 

Grecian2K

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Same with my old company too Olds.

Even the mandatory Public Liability Insurance (demanded to almost stratospheric levels of cover by most of our contracts) was very, very rarely claimed upon. For most of the (many) small claims received by firms such as ours in the Highways industry even those that were judged incontestable (a surprisingly small number actually, as we had a legal department with a very keen nose for - and robust attitude against - the many "try-ons") were generally paid "out of revenue". An approach which, actually, was a jolly good incentive for all of us on the ground to take proper care as any payouts reflected directly on the performance of our own operations rather than being just lost in the archives of some distant insurer.
PS: Also, as you have hinted, the No Claims Discount of such a policy upon premiums was probably humongous!!
 

Colesman Ballz

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Do councils insure? I know in the civil service we didn't, as it didn't make financial sense.
Exeter City Council certainly had cover for the Riverside Sports Complex, where the pool is still currently closed following the fire, but the pay-out wasn't enough to fully cover of repairs and additional remedials found necessary.
 

Alistair20000

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In case anybody is interested it does seem that the Royal Clarence traded (at a loss) as a separate company but as a subsidiary of a holding company.

The accounts to 1 January 2017 tell us that the insurers paid out £22.315 million for the capital loss with loss of profits compensation on top.

Company House filings herewith.

 

Oldsmobile-88

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In RaWZ we trust....Amen.
Cooling towers at Didcot.
The iconic landmark ones on the A1(M) at Ferrybridge will be gone soon(one was demolished last week)
I always used those as a time landmark whilst travelling to the North East..Quite a sight when they were all vapouring away on a cold day with huge coal stocks beside them..
 

Stelios

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Talking of Buildings Insurance, I am intrigued with Exeter City Council's position on the Clifton Sports Centre. I have never seen any reference to insurance cover mentioned. When the roof collapsed under the weight of snow, surely if cover existed it was a simple claim job to have it repaired ? Was it adequately insured ? If so did the Council just seize on the opportunity to sell off the larger area of the site, and also"pocket" the insurance money, presumably to help fund the escalating costs of their mahoosive vanity project that is St Sidwell's Point ?
Does seem that way. Couldn't wait to sell off a sports centre complex and surrounding open recreational space for housing to pay for the "What's the Point". This is the same council that proudly boasts about being an 'active city'.

Call me a cynic but I wouldn't be surprised if the Council are twiddling their thumbs re: the Plaza/Riverside until the Bus Station gets built and suddenly they'll say "we can't afford to keep the Riverside open as well".
 

Grecian2K

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Do you know if the towers at nearby Eggborough and Dead still in existence Olds?
(not been up that way for a few years)
The area was a prime spot for seeing the old heavy-haul diesel locos on the power station MGR trains back in the good old BR days!
 

Oldsmobile-88

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In RaWZ we trust....Amen.
Do you know if the towers at nearby Eggborough and Dead still in existence Olds?
(not been up that way for a few years)
The area was a prime spot for seeing the old heavy-haul diesel locos on the power station MGR trains back in the good old BR days!
Not sure if those impressive structures are still there,I also have not been that way for a few years.
One that I know that has gone is the one beside the M1 near to Sheffield.The M1 bent around that one.

Love our old 1950s industrial heritage when coal was king.

Make Coal your Goal was on the advertising hoardings at all grounds in the 1970s.

How times change !!
 
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