Politics Today

[Alistair20000]

We can't keep having referendums every time our Parliament is incapable of doing its job. The principle that we should become a member of a European Community was voted on by 65%
of the electorate. Changes made within this European community/union presumably were decided upon by the European parliament, which we voluntarily joined.
We have been constantly reminded that the people's voice must be listened to and obeyed, but it seems that this principle is only adhered to when it suits.

Oh dear.

 

[Hermann]

Afternoon Indo.

Whether it is Big John or PP the facts need to be established before one resorts to outrage. Just saying like.

Yes we shall wait for the facts before anything happens. But civil servants have not got on with ministers since forever, and they either put up with it until a new one comes in, or they take their payoff and move on. For him to refuse a payoff and publicly make a statement accusing her of lying is unheard of and is genuinely shocking. I have a number of civil servant friends, and their view is one would only take this course in the most extreme of circumstances.

 

[DB9]

We can't keep having referendums every time our Parliament is incapable of doing its job. The principle that we should become a member of a European Community was voted on by 65%
of the electorate. Changes made within this European community/union presumably were decided upon by the European parliament, which we voluntarily joined.
We have been constantly reminded that the people's voice must be listened to and obeyed, but it seems that this principle is only adhered to when it suits.

Two refs in 41 years is not too bad i'd thought, Inbetween those two we had politicians from the EU and National Parliaments who decided they wanted to change the EEC into the EU which was really fundemental and has made such a difference to people who live in the EU, IIRC it was said by the EU that it had to be unanimous that all countries wanted to do this otherwise the Maastricht would not go ahead, Most Governments decided they knew best and didn't offer a referendum but a few did and two rejected it, Then rather than keeping their word and abandoning the who idea, Which they promised to do if it wasn't unanimous the EEC/EU with the Governments of the nations that said no tweaked it until they got the right answer and i believe that really stuck in the throat of Eurosceptics and although it took nearly 30 years here in the UK Brexit happened and other nations Eurosceptics are looking emboldened and could after time get their own referendum. I've said all this earlier but the EEC was a totally different animal to the EU and most citizens of then EEC at the time, Which were only 9 or 15 countries, Unlike the 27 now were not consulted on such an important issue that would and has changed their lives forever, I don't remember reading in any manifesto at the time when voting in our GE this was explained to us and the consequenses of becoming the EU. You're right that we vote in our politicians to do our bidding but this was far too big as not to involve us and in 2016 they paid the price and even then it took over 3 years to implement with still Parliament thinking they knew best, It could be our worst decision as a nation and i don't really know if it will or won't be but time will tell, The likes of Major and others of that time thought they knew best and we'll go along with it but if there was a referendum in 92 and given all the facts and the difference between the EEC and the EU and all that would entail i think Major like Cameron would have been given one hell of a shock.

People say that in 2016 we weren't given all the facts but i think we were and i honestly knew what leaving would mean that is why i voted to remain but i lost, The country decided but still those in power could not accept it and tried every trick in the book to overturn things and in those 3+ years the public got more and more peeved off and we got our 2nd ref in the guise of a GE, It shouldn't have been a 2nd ref but it was and the nation decided (And for me i despair at a Tory Government) and we left this January, We can't go back, Not at least for a decade if things go tits up, The EU would make it a lot harder and more water tight

 

[IndoMike]

Yes we shall wait for the facts before anything happens. But civil servants have not got on with ministers since forever, and they either put up with it until a new one comes in, or they take their payoff and move on. For him to refuse a payoff and publicly make a statement accusing her of lying is unheard of and is genuinely shocking. I have a number of civil servant friends, and their view is one would only take this course in the most extreme of circumstances.

I think the same. I don't think he would take things this far if he wasn't sure of his ground. He'll need evidence, of course. He is clearly incensed. As I said, judging from her misguided actions in Israel she seems to be a loose canon,. Her infamous interview where she constantly repeated the phrase *dealing with counter-terrorism" ++ leads me to believe she is totally unprepared for her position

 

[DB9]

US and Taliban agree to end 18 year war, Will a ceasefire hold? Hope so, If there's one country that needs peace it's Afghanistan

 

[RaeUK]

Wow. You must have an encyclopaedic knowledge to know that the first use of the awful term "sub-human" was in the 1790's.

You've heard of books, right? I have some of those - including ones covering etymology.
* sigh *

 

[elginCity]

Sir Philip's comment that Patel's behaviour is “part of a wider pattern in government” is particularly troubling. Shaking the tree to remove the dead fruit is one thing, wrecking the branches quite another. This, together with the manipulation of MSM, fraudulent elections, the lies, the corruption, populism, all indicate a direction of travel towards a form of authoritarian regime.

 

[Stuffy]

We can't go back, Not at least for a decade if things go tits up, The EU would make it a lot harder and more water tight

Would the British public want to go back? I have long believed that the end game of the Franco/German alliance could well see them dominate the Brussels Parliament to the extent it would become nothing more than a feeble talking shop. In the league table of the biggest exporters of arms to the rest of the world the French and Germans come in third and fourth place respectively, and those two, as I have mentioned before, will get stronger and richer when EU States are ordered to standardise their equipment like having to purchase their new main battle tanks and jet fighters that are being developed by those two - as we speak.

Some of you may recall that I suspect that the C in C of EU land forces with be the Germans while the French might possibly command the air forces. As for the EU's navy I see that France's Macron has offered to discuss with other EU States the role that France's nuclear deterrent can play in "their Collective" security.

France Offers Nuclear Deterrent to All Europe | Arms Control Association

www.armscontrol.org

Answers on a postcard as to who do you think will be in sole control of the launch codes and thereby the EU's top warlord.

 

[DB9]

Wether we stay out or want back in will depend on how an Independent UK does on it's own and we won't know for a year at least for that, If we wanted back in you can be dam sure the negotiating would be very tough and we'd be the lesson others would be urged to learn if they thought of going it alone. As for a EU army etc it won't happen, Not while the populist, Nationalists get voted into power all around the EU countries which seems likely at the moment

 

[DB9]

By the way PM, Congrats on your engagement and the news that your fiancee is expecting a child (How many have you got now?) Not being an expert but going back in weeks I'd say you found a way to "Celebrate" your election victory