Manager

[Number13]

2017-2018	Exeter City	eng ENG	4. League Two	4th	46	24	8	14	64	54	+10	80	4,037	Jayden Stockley - 19	Christy Pym	→ Semi-finals
2016-2017	Exeter City	eng ENG	4. League Two	5th	46	21	8	17	75	56	+19	71	4,166	David Wheeler - 17	Christy Pym	→ Semi-finals
2015-2016	Exeter City	eng ENG	4. League Two	14th	46	17	13	16	63	65	-2	64	4,008	Tom Nichols - 12	Bobby Olejnik
2014-2015	Exeter City	eng ENG	4. League Two	10th	46	17	13	16	61	65	-4	64	3,873	Tom Nichols - 15	Christy Pym
2013-2014	Exeter City	eng ENG	4. League Two	16th	46	14	13	19	54	57	-3	55	3,701	Alan Gow - 7	Artur Krysiak
2012-2013	Exeter City	eng ENG	4. League Two	10th	46	18	10	18	63	62	+1	64	4,003	Jamie Cureton - 21	Artur Krysiak
2011-2012	Exeter City	eng ENG	3. League One	23rd	46	10	12	24	46	75	-29	42	4,474	Daniel Nardiello - 9	Artur Krysiak	Relegated
2010-2011	Exeter City	eng ENG	3. League One	8th	46	20	10	16	66	73	-7	70	5,393	Jamie Cureton - 17	Paul Jones, Ben Hamer
2009-2010	Exeter City	eng ENG	3. League One	18th	46	11	18	17	48	60	-12	51	5,832	Ryan Harley - 10	Paul Jones
2008-2009	Exeter City	eng ENG	4. League Two	2nd	46	22	13	11	65	50	+15	79	4,931	Adam Stansfield - 10	Paul Jones	Promoted
2007-2008	Exeter City	eng ENG	5. Conf Premier	4th	46	22	17	7	83	58	+25	83	3,705	Richard Logan - 19	Andy Marriott	Promoted, → Semi-finals
2006-2007	Exeter City	eng ENG	5. Conf National	5th	46	22	12	12	67	48	+19	78	3,627	Billy Jones, Adam Stansfield - 10	Martin Rice	→ Semi-finals

Tisdale's season on season record.

Thats a superb graphic - not seen that before, where did you source it? Although we were finalists in 2007 rather than semi finalists.....

 

[MJP_Exeter]

Thats a superb graphic - not seen that before, where did you source it? Although we were finalists in 2007 rather than semi finalists.....

Just typed it into Google and found it. Cannot remember the link, but it had seasons either side of Tisdale's reign.

 

[Stelios]

Just to pick up on the first point, that GC doesn't get carried away with results/decisions..

Doesnt GC get a yellow card nearly every week for arguing with referees?

Good point. Can't find a manager card league table

 

[InMyBlood]

I've always wondered what makes a good manager and to me there is no obvious answer. Easier to see what makes a bad one.
John Lyall was a successful manager but was he a good one? His win rates are not high as he saw West Ham relegated and struggled with Ipswich after promotion.



Interesting article in Guardian on Moyes. Last of the Anti-Possession Mangers Since it was written he has lost to Arsenal 6-0, Forest 2-0 and beaten Brentford but is he a good manager? West Ham got their first silverware since Lyall under him. I'm not a fan but then I'm not one of Caldwell either.
The game has moved on since Lyall managed. He would have been sacked before West Ham were relegated. I'm pleased Caldwell wasn't sacked before December but he doesn't look like he will admit his mistakes and adapt.
Ferguson succeeded for a long time while changing his assistants regularly. I think to succeed you need people around you who aren't Yes Men. Are Perks and Nicholson just going along with what he says? In Caldwell's anniversary video he talks about not immediately changing strategy and asking Nicholson why City were playing that way which was concerning to me.

 

[We8Argyle]

I quite like Ange Postecoglou from spurs, like his ethos of having a go no matter what

That’s not very ambitious, what about Pep Guardiola?

 

[CREDYGRECIAN]

The expectation levels from a manager is different at every club or level.

For manager at Exeter City there should be 2 main focuses IMO.

1. Try and entertain as much as possible regardless of results to keep people willing to come back so the club doesn’t suffer financially through ticket sales or crowds.

2. inter-grate young academy players or have 2-3 “one of your own” within the team or squad.

That’s sort of it really, league 1 or 2? I’m personally not that bothered.

The above why I’ve found this season so frustrating because i don’t expect Exeter City or its manager to ever have in reality a win % of much more than say 40% - which is fine if its an enjoyable watch or entertaining experience and that’s where we’ve fallen down this season IMO because the football is dull at times especially at home where you go 20-30 mins spells just chatting to people rather than watching the game.

 

[Antony Moxey]

The expectation levels from a manager is different at every club or level.

For manager at Exeter City there should be 2 main focuses IMO.

1. Try and entertain as much as possible regardless of results to keep people willing to come back so the club doesn’t suffer financially through ticket sales or crowds.

2. inter-grate young academy players or have 2-3 “one of your own” within the team or squad.

That’s sort of it really, league 1 or 2? I’m personally not that bothered.

The above why I’ve found this season so frustrating because i don’t expect Exeter City or its manager to ever have in reality a win % of much more than say 40% - which is fine if its an enjoyable watch or entertaining experience and that’s where we’ve fallen down this season IMO because the football is dull at times especially at home where you go 20-30 mins spells just chatting to people rather than watching the game.

Yes but if you’re suffering ‘entertaining’ defeats each week and getting relegated on the back of it then the club will suffer financially, and not just through ticket sales. You’re losing out on TV money and academy funding too. You’re not bothered if we’re in L2, well we’d need to relegated first. But what if the same thing happens again? Not bothered about the Conference? You’re being entertained by 3-2 defeats every week - how about National League South and playing Torquay and Taunton? Somewhere along the line you need results. Football is a results business, all competitive sport is - the clue’s in the ‘competitive’ bit - there’s much more that’s needed besides entertainment. If that’s all you’re providing then very soon you won’t have a club at all.

 

[ryancooper327]

Thats a superb graphic - not seen that before, where did you source it? Although we were finalists in 2007 rather than semi finalists.....

FBREF - unparrelled for stats!

 

[sign of the chimes]

I've always wondered what makes a good manager and to me there is no obvious answer. Easier to see what makes a bad one.
John Lyall was a successful manager but was he a good one? His win rates are not high as he saw West Ham relegated and struggled with Ipswich after promotion.

View attachment 14902

Interesting article in Guardian on Moyes. Last of the Anti-Possession Mangers Since it was written he has lost to Arsenal 6-0, Forest 2-0 and beaten Brentford but is he a good manager? West Ham got their first silverware since Lyall under him. I'm not a fan but then I'm not one of Caldwell either.
The game has moved on since Lyall managed. He would have been sacked before West Ham were relegated. I'm pleased Caldwell wasn't sacked before December but he doesn't look like he will admit his mistakes and adapt.
Ferguson succeeded for a long time while changing his assistants regularly. I think to succeed you need people around you who aren't Yes Men. Are Perks and Nicholson just going along with what he says? In Caldwell's anniversary video he talks about not immediately changing strategy and asking Nicholson why City were playing that way which was concerning to me.

I tend to think win % is a pretty blunt measure as it doesn't take account of the strength (or weakness) of the team being managed relative to division - e.g. If Caldwell had a 40% win rate after a season and a half with City in L1 most impartial observers would say he was doing a good job. If he had the same win rate with Derby or Bolton in L1 the appraisal of that win rate would likely differ.

The Lyall stats you shared are interesting; almost half of his tenure would have been during the era of 2 points for a win (i.e. where a draw was worth more) - so I'd not be surprised if win rates were typically a bit lower across the board during that era.

Finally - but related to the above - the loss rate is also quite interesting to look at in terms of modern managers. If you've got a win rate of, say 35% but a loss rate around 50% (i.e. few draws) your tenure might be percieved pretty differently to someone with a 35-35-30 profile.

 

[sidney]

After 763 pages, all pretty much saying variations on a theme of 'Caldwell out', I thought it might be helpful to start a thread in which there was an examination of what exactly City fans expect of a 'Manager'.
The Cambridge Dictionary unhelpfully describes it thus:

"The person whose job is to organize and sometimes train a sports team:"

Feel free to add any constructive points you wish, but by my reckoning our current 'manager' fails on at least 4 of the suggestions above.

Thank you for starting an interesting thread which did not turn into a 'Caldwell Out' slogan fest, but instead produced an interesting discussion. My modest contribution is to say that I very much like the idea of a fan-owned club, and it has obviously turned out well. I would like ECFC to emphasise our distinctiveness with, for example, making our kit traditional/different, or absolutely refusing to time-waste when we are leading/hanging on for a draw. Does it really help us in an era when time is correctly added on? We just get yellow cards. I want us to be the club that everyone wants to do well bar the team they have always supported. I was proud when under Tisdale we often featured high in Fair Play leagues. And I want us to do the right thing: Jevani being an example.

To be sportsmanlike, to be polite and respectful to referees, to not kick the ball away or encroach on throw-ins or time waste, or feign injury, is not a sign of softness or weakness. Its exactly the opposite - it shows strength and collective team confidence.

I am now getting really fanciful: a fan owned ECFC could be revolutionary if it just stopped adopting all the annoying habits of modern football.

When we score, let's rush to get the ball back to the centre spot irrespective of the score line. Think of the impact on the opposition if we did that every time.

And please, please don't 'hang on', if we are a goal up at half time. It doesn't work.

Finally, has anyone considered that a Sir Jim Ratcliffe might get more fun and PR benefit out of putting £10 million as a gift to ECFC than a billion or two into Man U? We should invite super wealthy individuals to just donate to a very special and distinctive club rather than 'invest'. We could build a beautiful Craven Cottage in the Jungle triangle as a 'thank you'.

All football clubs are very much the same. We should embrace distinctiveness in everything we do, including our style of play, and make that the ECFC 'brand'/identity. Not shout it from the rooftops, no 'hype', ( that will alienate fans from other clubs ) but with subtlety and over time. Earn respect, and the reputation of being a 'proper' club, if that does not sound too 'Tisdale'. An ethos of 'doing the right thing'.

We are already at least halfway there. Which I think is why gates have held up so well in challenging times.

You are welcome to say I have gone mad.