City fans watching England...

[Avening Posse]

I watched them abroad on a few occasions in the 90's and early part of this century. Had some great times. Only downside is all supporters of England were treated the same by the authorities, which on occasion was a pain in the arse. When you are relatively young you take it on the chin, but wouldn't fancy it nowadays. And unless I am mistaken and have read the wrong news threads, it appears there were circa 5,000 official fans there, and another 5,000 in the City as well. 100 arrests is still 100 arrests, but certainly not representative of England supporters if there were 10,000 in the city, and it strikes me as foolish to think otherwise.

 

[Legohead]

Wasn't it the tournament in Belgium / Holland in 2000 where the authorities (Belgian in particular i recall) actually engaged and interacted with the England fans by playing footy in the streets and all sorts in an attempt to manage and police them differently? I recall it was quite successful although someone may be able to back this up as my memory about it is a bit vague.

 

[jrg333]

So lets get this right, some on here are bemoaning the behaviour of some England thugs yet are happy that the Russian police and their state sponsored hoolies will do the same at the World Cup. Makes sense.

Yep, 'fraid so.

It suits a simple mind to divide the world neatly into 'good guys' and 'bad guys' rather than to stick to any principles which have been formed through reason.

"Violence is wrong.... unless I personally don't like the people who are victims of it."

Playground logic.

 

[ramone]

yeah reading the article indo your right they never learn , looks like some dickheads got ****ed and probably stoned in and around the red light district.. and english dickheads DONT learn.. thats why they are dickheadssocially retarded ignorant stupid tw ts .. unfortunatly england and especially its football is full of them. .. . sort of goes part way to explaining engalnd as a footballin nations lack of success on the feild . unfortunatly

So that's why England aren't good on the field ! its because of the fans, I hope someone has told the manager.

 

[IndoMike]

So much twaddle on this thread. Brits are famous in European sunspots for behaving like arseholes. We have a bad drinking culture and many think they are Billy Bigsox after two pints. Some English fans the same.
And the England team is carp for many reasons, but not due to the fans.
Simples.

 

[tavyred]

Yep, 'fraid so.

It suits a simple mind to divide the world neatly into 'good guys' and 'bad guys' rather than to stick to any principles which have been formed through reason.

"Violence is wrong.... unless I personally don't like the people who are victims of it."

Playground logic.

....and history dictates that it's a dangerous logic.
Lest we forget it was the same thought processes that transformed the Hillsborough tradegy into a national scandal.
So much of this is class driven, the gentrification of football has attracted liberal minded, self loathing middle class types who on one hand can condemn the excesses of England fans, yet in turn ignore the excesses of other nations and on this thread at least encourage unlawful violence against England fans.

 

[Red Bill]

If you honestly believe its only ever been an English thing then you are far wide of the mark. The 70's and 80's things were pretty much between English clubs and not taken oversea's for internationals.

Go back as far as 1314 when football was banned because of football related violence !

You may note the word 'mostly' in my post. But the more important word is 'disease', i.e. that people abroad blame England fans for spreading this behaviour. I well remembe what it was like in the 70s and trust me, pretty much anything the peasantry did in the fourteenth century was banned.
The vast majority of England fans behave themselves well as is the case domestically, but as i said they're payiing the price of an unwanted reputation resulting from the behaviour ofa few thugish morons.

The treatment of England fans by foreign police forces, willingly supported by element of the British media, is often hugely disprportionate and sometimes completely unprovoked. My friends were out in Marseilles a few years ago when they were charged along the beach by french riot police actually towards Algerian(?) fans, and they weren't even going to the match but merely on holiday. At Heisel, when the cameras turned away from the Liverpool fans they showed a picture of a Juventus fan holding a gun, but nothing was said about the behaviour of Italian fans. I get it that this is a worldwide problem, and in many countries it much much worse than here, i understand that the police and the media unfairly and disproportionately target England fans, but make no mistake, the world blames England for football hooliganism and the behaviour of some English people abroad in general, means we are often seen as a nation of drunken, loutish thugs. The problem is, there some English people who are proud of that reputation and as long as they are there, the ordinary friendly, well behaved fans that make up the vast majority of crowds as the games i go to, will be tarred with the same brush, and the police and media will be out looking for them!

 

[ramone]

I have seen footage of a scooter being thrown from the top tier of a stadium onto opposing fans ! A frigging scooter how do you not see a small motor scooter being taken into a stadium ffs.

Anything that can be blamed on someone else is always the rule of thumb where football is concerned, don't blame the police for over zealous beatings of fans quietly having a beer outside the cafes in France. The British media can be the worse culprit for and against fans you find one paper will brand them thugs / hooligans where another paper will put the same fans as victims unless you are there at the time and see it for your own eyes you never really know what went on.

UEFA are another source of anger from myself as they are all too quick to impose fines or conditions on the England team because of fans being loutish and yet don't do the same for other foreign teams.

 

[Legohead]

I think it's also worth pointing out that the 'ultras' of many Italian and Russian clubs have a big political influence in the running of those clubs.

 

[Red Bill]

I have seen footage of a scooter being thrown from the top tier of a stadium onto opposing fans ! A frigging scooter how do you not see a small motor scooter being taken into a stadium ffs.

Anything that can be blamed on someone else is always the rule of thumb where football is concerned, don't blame the police for over zealous beatings of fans quietly having a beer outside the cafes in France. The British media can be the worse culprit for and against fans you find one paper will brand them thugs / hooligans where another paper will put the same fans as victims unless you are there at the time and see it for your own eyes you never really know what went on.

UEFA are another source of anger from myself as they are all too quick to impose fines or conditions on the England team because of fans being loutish and yet don't do the same for other foreign teams.

Well it seems we've found something we can agree on then!