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Goodbye Tisdale

jambo

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it's disappair'd
A few years back, Tisdale used the prospect of going to elsewhere as a lever to ratchet up the fear amongst the risk-averse in the Club Board, & secured the "surreal" outcome of the rolling contract. Just like the repetition at Wembley on Monday of last year's debacle against Blackpool, it looks like we're seeing a similar repetition of the attempt to generate fear by his dalliance with MK Dons. The post-match interviews, the whole "careful what you wish for" schtick is all pretty calculated.

I genuinely think that it would be in the best interests of the Club to set a short time limit for Tisdale to make his decision, after which, the new contract offer should be rescinded. It's time Tisdale recognises that he is an employee of the Club. (I actually think, personally, that the recent public badmouthing of the Club & of the Trust model is provocation enough to rescind the contract offer immediately, but that's another matter.)

Of course, change might not be successful, or not immediately so. Similarly, it might well be successful. But the key issues are:

1. What do we want for our Club? - what is our vision of (sustainable) success? (To his credit, Tisdale has himself promoted the nerd for this discussion - the worry here is that the Club has gone into "ticking over" mode.)

2. Should we really believe that our single best hope of achieving this outcome is the current manager? Has he done the best that he could with the resources at his disposal? Does he have a convincing plan for building on what has been achieved in recent years?

3. Do we really believe that no other manager could have achieved the sorts of outcomes that Tisdale has achieved over, let's say, the last five years? - the reason for thinking in this way is in part to consider whether he has reached the limits of what he is capable of achieving with the Club (this is, to be clear, the exact corollary of Tisdale's question about whether the Club has reached the limits of what it can achieve under the Supporters Trust model of ownership - if one question should be posed, then so should the other).

4. Is now the right moment for the Club to be thinking about change? - is it better to seek change on the basis of stability or failure?
 

IndoMike

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A few years back, Tisdale used the prospect of going to elsewhere as a lever to ratchet up the fear amongst the risk-averse in the Club Board, & secured the "surreal" outcome of the rolling contract. Just like the repetition at Wembley on Monday of last year's debacle against Blackpool, it looks like we're seeing a similar repetition of the attempt to generate fear by his dalliance with MK Dons. The post-match interviews, the whole "careful what you wish for" schtick is all pretty calculated.

I genuinely think that it would be in the best interests of the Club to set a short time limit for Tisdale to make his decision, after which, the new contract offer should be rescinded. It's time Tisdale recognises that he is an employee of the Club. (I actually think, personally, that the recent public badmouthing of the Club & of the Trust model is provocation enough to rescind the contract offer immediately, but that's another matter.)

Of course, change might not be successful, or not immediately so. Similarly, it might well be successful. But the key issues are:

1. What do we want for our Club? - what is our vision of (sustainable) success? (To his credit, Tisdale has himself promoted the nerd for this discussion - the worry here is that the Club has gone into "ticking over" mode.)

2. Should we really believe that our single best hope of achieving this outcome is the current manager? Has he done the best that he could with the resources at his disposal? Does he have a convincing plan for building on what has been achieved in recent years?

3. Do we really believe that no other manager could have achieved the sorts of outcomes that Tisdale has achieved over, let's say, the last five years? - the reason for thinking in this way is in part to consider whether he has reached the limits of what he is capable of achieving with the Club (this is, to be clear, the exact corollary of Tisdale's question about whether the Club has reached the limits of what it can achieve under the Supporters Trust model of ownership - if one question should be posed, then so should the other).

4. Is now the right moment for the Club to be thinking about change? - is it better to seek change on the basis of stability or failure?
I agree entirely with your comments. I think Tisdale has made his own position untenable. How could he possibly continue when he has expressed his disdain for the ownership? How can he continue after alienating so many fans? What happens if we start badly next season - can he expect our patience, sympathy and support?
 

AlanDevlin

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#HeavenInDevon
A few years back, Tisdale used the prospect of going to elsewhere as a lever to ratchet up the fear amongst the risk-averse in the Club Board, & secured the "surreal" outcome of the rolling contract. Just like the repetition at Wembley on Monday of last year's debacle against Blackpool, it looks like we're seeing a similar repetition of the attempt to generate fear by his dalliance with MK Dons. The post-match interviews, the whole "careful what you wish for" schtick is all pretty
I don’t believe Tisdale’s contract came about through anything other than the naievity and greed of the Board at that time who wrongly believed that there would be a queue of clubs willing to pay handsomely for his services.

Whilst the Board over the intervening years have pursued the young player development programme with some success, the financial frailty that surrounded all but the past year or so has prevented the development of a club infrastructure capable of sustaining a presence in leagues above, and although currently (outwardly) stable, the Board level naivety of our early post Conference years persists.

Until shaking that off becomes a priority, regardless of who manages the team, IMHO it is better that we keep creaming off the financial benefits of trips to Wembley and staying in our current league.
 

iscalad

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Far away across the field
I don’t believe Tisdale’s contract came about through anything other than the naievity and greed of the Board at that time who wrongly believed that there would be a queue of clubs willing to pay handsomely for his services.

Whilst the Board over the intervening years have pursued the young player development programme with some success, the financial frailty that surrounded all but the past year or so has prevented the development of a club infrastructure capable of sustaining a presence in leagues above, and although currently (outwardly) stable, the Board level naivety of our early post Conference years persists.

Until shaking that off becomes a priority, regardless of who manages the team, IMHO it is better that we keep creaming off the financial benefits of trips to Wembley and staying in our current league.
Do you mean things like new stands, 3g training pitches or some other things that haven't developed?
 

squiz

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Aug 20, 2007
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81
What is it with people & the rolling contract, despite all the things said on here they were & still are common in the football management industry. The only thing is they are normally 12 to 18 months. They are seen as a way of giving continuity to a club whilst also giving financial security to the manager in the form of compensation should they be sacked & for the club should a manager leave. Steve Bruce is currently on a 12 month rolling contract at Villa. I would suggest that when the initial contract was signed the board would of looked at common practice & taken advice from experts whilst PT would of consulted the LMA or taken legal advice himself.
 

ExeterCityLad

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What is it with people & the rolling contract, despite all the things said on here they were & still are common in the football management industry. The only thing is they are normally 12 to 18 months. They are seen as a way of giving continuity to a club whilst also giving financial security to the manager in the form of compensation should they be sacked & for the club should a manager leave. Steve Bruce is currently on a 12 month rolling contract at Villa. I would suggest that when the initial contract was signed the board would of looked at common practice & taken advice from experts whilst PT would of consulted the LMA or taken legal advice himself.
A 12 month rolling contract is very different to a two year rolling contract. This has been explained various times on this thread when discussing when managers usually negotiate extensions and their future (18-12months in advance - This would be no different to a standard contract in those terms)

Also to state they're "common" in the football management industry is fantasy. Few and far between. Lastly, Villa are a bit more healthy financially than us if you hadn't noticed, and would be able to pay off a 12 month rolling contract with ease, compared to us paying off 2 years worth of wages to the highest paid manager in the league.

The comparison you give is nonsensical, but I think you're aware of that.
 
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LDNGrecian

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A 12 month rolling contract is very different to a two year rolling contract. This has been explained various times on this thread when discussing when managers usually negotiate extensions and their future (18-12months in advance - This would be no different to a standard contract in those terms)

Also to state they're "common" in the football management industry is fantasy. Few and far between. Lastly, Villa are a bit more healthy financially than us if you hadn't noticed, and would be able to pay off a 12 month rolling contract with ease, compared to us paying off 2 years worth of wages to the highest paid manager in the league.

The comparison you give is nonsensical, but I think you're aware of that.
I guess we should only offer a monthly contract then?

Its the combination of the salary and the length that is the issue.
 

squiz

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Aug 20, 2007
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Tisdale in the Times article says the club have been in tick over mode for the last 5 years & says that a cross roads has been reached. Exactly as you have said but when he did it he is accused of bad mouthing the board. Hello why is he bad mouthing but you are being constructive.
It’s about time people actually read what was said not what they think was said!
 

IndoMike

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Tisdale in the Times article says the club have been in tick over mode for the last 5 years & says that a cross roads has been reached. Exactly as you have said but when he did it he is accused of bad mouthing the board. Hello why is he bad mouthing but you are being constructive.
It’s about time people actually read what was said not what they think was said!
Isn't our financial situation confidential information?
 
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squiz

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It was not a comparison but a documented fact about Steve Bruce & Villa. Yes a 24 month rolling contract is twice as long as a 12 month one.
So just been reading up on rolling contracts & according to the Law Gazette it’s just Management consultants “Gobbledegook” as a rolling contract is a contract that can in fact have notice of termination given at any time & is the type of contract that most employees in the uk work under the 2 year bit which dictates the severance compensation payout. The Cadbury report said that the maximum term should be no more than 2 years.
It also states that a true rolling contract is a fixed term contract that automatically renews at its end date with a new fixed term contract of the same length unless notice is served at the prescribed break point.
Good to do some research & learn something every day, so you were saying?
 
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