Tisdale to Southampton

[IndoMike]

It does worry me, Mike. I know there was a report in the media back a couple of months ago that Tisdales contract was being "worked on" or words to that effect. There are one or two new people on the BoS that I currently have a lot of faith in to keep a close eye!

It's like the Wenger situation. Tisdale has become part of the furniture, is close friends with Taggy and probably friends with other directors, and has surrounded himself with some of his ex-players. They all now form a close-knit club. The Trust members are probably wide-eyed in awe when they see Tizzy. So Taggy or the Trust would have to be extremely objective to consider releasing Tisdale. I can't se that happening, so when Tis goes it will be on his own initiative unless we have 2 seasons in the bottom half of the table and totally stagnate.

 

[Saint James]

Times have changed and he might not get a contract renewal if this season goes totally tits up. The trust should certainly be in no hurry to sanction a new deal rushed quickly past their noses. I'm sure they wont.

Pete, not the remit of the Trust. The Club Board have the responsibility with regard to the Manager's contract. The Trust will i'm sure be informed of what the outcomes of discussions have been but ultimately its down to the Club not the Trust as they have the legal responsibilities for all employees.

 

[IndoMike]

Pete, not the remit of the Trust. The Club Board have the responsibility with regard to the Manager's contract. The Trust will i'm sure be informed of what the outcomes of discussions have been but ultimately its down to the Club not the Trust as they have the legal responsibilities for all employees.

I'm still confused about this. The Trust was able to instruct the Club to terminate the "rolling" aspect of Tisdale's contract, but cannot instruct the club to terminate the actual contract, right? Can the Trust refuse to approve a continuation of the contract or even conversely refuse to approve termination?

 

[John William]

I'm still confused about this. The Trust was able to instruct the Club to terminate the "rolling" aspect of Tisdale's contract, but cannot instruct the club to terminate the actual contract, right? Can the Trust refuse to approve a continuation of the contract or even conversely refuse to approve termination?

Technically the Trust cannot instruct the Club to do anything, as the Club is a Limited Company bound by UK law and only its Directors can make such decisions. As majority shareholder the Trust can in extremis call a Club EGM and use its shares to vote off directors who will not implement its wishes, and / or appoint additional ones. That power should be enough to ensure that its will should prevail, should they wish to take a stand.

However, as the Trust nominate half the Club Board they do have the effective power, again if they wished use it. Their four Directors could if the TB so decided prevail over the other directors.

I'm pretty sure either of these would be regarded as "nuclear options" by the Club, and lead to a massive row or worse.

There is also a Club / Trust Agreement in force (this was on the old Trust website but not yet the new one). It governs the things the Trust must be consulted on, including any non-player contract over £50K; in theory the Manager's contract is covered by this, but if it has been discussed it was unsurprisingly under Part B (confidential). As I have now been off the TB for over a year (I resigned among other reasons as the TB would not enforce another Trust AGM decision, about a Business Plan) I have no idea what if anything has happened on these matters recently.

Of course, Tis as the other party to any new contract has his own leverage, and I imagine he would not want any details disclosed.

 

[IndoMike]

Technically the Trust cannot instruct the Club to do anything, as the Club is a Limited Company bound by UK law and only its Directors can make such decisions. As majority shareholder the Trust can in extremis call a Club EGM and use its shares to vote off directors who will not implement its wishes, and / or appoint additional ones. That power should be enough to ensure that its will should prevail, should they wish to take a stand.

However, as the Trust nominate half the Club Board they do have the effective power, again if they wished use it. Their four Directors could if the TB so decided prevail over the other directors.

I'm pretty sure either of these would be regarded as "nuclear options" by the Club, and lead to a massive row or worse.

There is also a Club / Trust Agreement in force (this was on the old Trust website but not yet the new one). It governs the things the Trust must be consulted on, including any non-player contract over £50K; in theory the Manager's contract is covered by this, but if it has been discussed it was unsurprisingly under Part B (confidential). As I have now been off the TB for over a year (I resigned among other reasons as the TB would not enforce another Trust AGM decision, about a Business Plan) I have no idea what if anything has happened on these matters recently.

Of course, Tis as the other party to any new contract has his own leverage, and I imagine he would not want any details disclosed.

But didn't the Trust have the power to instruct the club to terminate the "rolling" aspect of Tis' contract? if not, what was the process?

 

[John William]

But didn't the Trust have the power to instruct the club to terminate the "rolling" aspect of Tis' contract? if not, what was the process?

No, and I don't know. The Trust has only the powers I outlined above, and as a body the TB were kept out of the process, at the insistence of the Directors of the Club.

The TB Minutes of 12 December 2016 (available online on the Trust Website) were so carefully crafted they were gnomic. They did not give any confirmation of implementation of the AGM Resolution, recording merely that:

A/10 Part B Summary
Items discussed under Part B (Confidential Items) included:
(i) That the TB were satisfied with the actions that had been undertaken in relation to the Manager’s contract.

 

[IndoMike]

No, and I don't know. The Trust has only the powers I outlined above, and as a body the TB were kept out of the process, at the insistence of the Directors of the Club.

The TB Minutes of 12 December 2016 (available online on the Trust Website) were so carefully crafted they were gnomic. They did not give any confirmation of implementation of the AGM Resolution, recording merely that:

A/10 Part B Summary
Items discussed under Part B (Confidential Items) included:
(i) That the TB were satisfied with the actions that had been undertaken in relation to the Manager’s contract.

So the Trust informed the club of the AGM resolution and the club seemingly complied - the logical interpretation of "satisfied" . However, the club was not obliged to comply with the resolution, and there has been no official announcement made. Right?

 

[CREDYGRECIAN]

last time we argued and the team proved you wrong and you realized you had talked embarrassing knee jerk crap, you disappeared and sulked for how long ? and now your talking knee jerk crap AGAIN, do you never learn, last season we had a decent first 11 this season we've got a GOOD squad, most positions are adequately covered which for our level is GOOD. and tottenhams striking options are, arguably, thin on the ground,take kane out and imo they'd struggle for goals its hard almost impossible at ANY LEVEL to keep hold of prolific/regular goalscorers, if they dont start and play they are in demand and for a fee theycan 'walk' away from most clubs and contracts with almost impunity . And 'all our midfielders do the same job' what absolute crap, so your saying harley does the same job as tillson, and taylor does the same job as james, get a grip.

Do you genuinely think me not posting for a while is anything to do with caring about your opinion or how the team have performed? because If you do you couldn't be any further out - you're opinion of the squad is simply wrong and comparing us with Spurs who have Son , Ali , Llorente & Lamela as back up - are you for real.

And all our midfield does the same job - a bad one.

 

[Angus]

It's like the Wenger situation. Tisdale has become part of the furniture, is close friends with Taggy and probably friends with other directors, and has surrounded himself with some of his ex-players. They all now form a close-knit club. The Trust members are probably wide-eyed in awe when they see Tizzy. So Taggy or the Trust would have to be extremely objective to consider releasing Tisdale. I can't se that happening, so when Tis goes it will be on his own initiative unless we have 2 seasons in the bottom half of the table and totally stagnate.

fully agree again Mike. our situation is exactly like the Wenger situation. it's a fact that long term management doesn't work. you lose hunger and turns managers into a person that creates loyalty. there's no loyalty in winning. do you honestly think if we changed managers two years ago we'd be stuck with the likes of Harley, Troy and Seabourne all on a fairly decent wage.

Top managers have a list of clubs they've managed as long as my arm in a fairly short time

 

[IndoMike]

fully agree again Mike. our situation is exactly like the Wenger situation. it's a fact that long term management doesn't work. you lose hunger and turns managers into a person that creates loyalty. there's no loyalty in winning. do you honestly think if we changed managers two years ago we'd be stuck with the likes of Harley, Troy and Seabourne all on a fairly decent wage.

Top managers have a list of clubs they've managed as long as my arm in a fairly short time

I agree back. It's very hard for Taggy ever to say to Tis :"You've done a great job for us, we really appreciate it, but it's time for us all to move on. You will always be welcome. We plan to erect a statue of you in recognition of your service".