UK and European Politics 2024 Thread

[tavyred]

We live in a parliamentary democracy, a slim majority decision by 'The People', and not legally binding, should have been tested, questioned and reconsidered BEFORE triggering Article 50. Political dynamite undoubtedly, but acting in the national interest, which is supposedly what they're there to do. But of course we all know they only serve their own narrow self interest, propped up and sustained by the likes of you, Tav !

Cameron, May, Johnson & co have a lot to answer for, but sadly the questions won't ever be asked, see above.

These Remain arguments are like old friends Elgy, thank you for the trip down memory lane.
Our parliament has always had a pro-EU membership majority, they were free to ignore the referendum at any time they wanted. What more do you want?
You even had a 2nd referendum option to vote for before we formally left in early 2020.

 

[BigBanker]

These Remain arguments are like old friends Elgy, thank you for the trip down memory lane.
Our parliament has always had a pro-EU membership majority, they were free to ignore the referendum at any time they wanted. What more do you want?
You even had a 2nd referendum option to vote for before we formally left in early 2020.

FWIW I am/was a remainer and I find these arguments over the validity of the referendum very tiresome.

 

[Hants_red]

An interesting development on the Angela Rayner housing case, I wonder how the Daily Mail will get on with investigating this one

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1789777475368522168

 

[arthur]

More evidence that Reform isn't a party, with members who can get involved and have a say. Rather it is a private organisation, financed and controlled by a very small number of rich individuals. A glorified pressure group/political hobby...

Reform UK reliant on leader Richard Tice for 80% of funding since 2021

Tice has loaned party £1.4m since taking over and has said party’s lack of resources is making campaigning difficult

www.theguardian.com

 

[arthur]

FWIW I am/was a remainer and I find these arguments over the validity of the referendum very tiresome.

I have no issue with the validity of the 2016 Referendum. It was established by an act of Parliament and carried out properly. My issue is with the whole principle of referendums and the 2016 one, and events that followed, provide further evidence that referendums are a Bad Idea. That's all

 

[Trapdoor]

I would like to remind you of a quote from the former Russian ambassador to the UK Aleksandr Yakovenko, upon returning to Russia post-Brexit to receive a medal of honour: “we have crushed the British to the ground, they are on their knees and they will not rise for a very long time.”

Tice, BoJo, Farage et al need to grow some balls and acknowledge they were played like fiddles and its time to start fixing the problems. TBF at least Sunak has become aware of the risk now. Russias CopyCop published 19000 "news" articles last month alone. The sheer volume of divisive, disinformation is hard to handle. Starmer needs to get his head around this ASAP because hes going to be the one facing this problem. I dont know if there is a good solution currently but I would recommend a thorough purge of the BBC after the next election and more strict vetting for BBC management.

Russia-Linked CopyCop Uses LLMs to Weaponize Influence Content at Scale | Recorded Future

Insikt Group shares research on CopyCop: a Russian-linked network using AI for disinformation to influence US, UK, and French politics. Dive into the details.

www.recordedfuture.com

 

[BigBanker]

I have no issue with the validity of the 2016 Referendum. It was established by an act of Parliament and carried out properly. My issue is with the whole principle of referendums and the 2016 one, and events that followed, provide further evidence that referendums are a Bad Idea. That's all

Fair enough, especially if you were as anti-referenda prior to the Brexit result.

For me though, the debate around mechanics just serves as an easy out for team Brexit ('you're only moaning cos you lost')

I'd rather concentrate on how Brexit was won (lies) and why it was and still is a bad idea.

 

[Phil Sayers]

our long term sickness problem.

I don't see that we really have a long-term sickness problem when compared to other countries:

Health Status : Absence from work due to illness (oecd.org)

What is true is that for some reason our employees have not returned to work post-Covid in the same way as employees abroad have done but it cannot be overall said that our sickness record is more of a problem than it usually is elsewhere:

Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world (ft.com)

 

[tavyred]

I'd rather concentrate on how Brexit was won (lies) and why it was and still is a bad idea.

BB.
Do you think the case to stay in the EU was also made by its advocates with the help of lies and gross exaggeration?

 

[BigBanker]

BB.
Do you think the case to stay in the EU was also made by its advocates with the help of lies and gross exaggeration?

I would never claim that any political campaign was 100% honest, no.

But the key difference for me is that we already knew what we were getting with EU membership. It was the status quo. So people had direct experience of the truth of it (for better or worse). The pro-active choice to depart from that status quo should have been informed by rational, calm, objective, realistic discourse. And it really was not.