Are we approaching a Crossroads

[i8cornwall]

Always wanted more of a shift away from overall supporter control to something a bit more hybrid - I think it’s required at the higher levels.

The Trust have done amazing things and continue to - but there is a very clear ceiling to it all and it’s there & can’t be ignored. I would like to see plans laid out for the next steps behind relying on 6k a week. I think we’re a saleable asset and under no pressure so would be the perfect point in our history to begin an active hunt for the right partner to go forward. IMO.

You’ll get people say there’s no private investors out there who would do a good job but I don’t believe that to be true. The same will jump on the word “invest” and say “well they’d want their money back” which is also a very simplistic argument as these people come in all forms.

For what it’s worth I think we will stay up but this is a huge opportunity over next 5+ years to build momentum and take a genuine step forward in a league that absolutely we should be sustainable at.

This!! but Im pretty certain there is zero chance of it happening.

But back to the OP:

On the pitch I think we'll be fine this season, going forward I'm not so sure and hope more focus is placed on financing players then building projects or off the pitch activity.

Short term project 6k will work but once the buzz from being in league one wares off or the rugby start doing well again I can't see us getting that regularly for home games.

I'm hopeful we can sustain league one football under our current model but as Ive always advocated on the pitch needs to go hand in hand with off the pitch or in fact lead the off the pitch stuff or we'll end up back in league two.

 

[Devonboy]

I've seen posts saying "I'll settle for 5th from bottom". This would mean a season where we would lose far more games than we win and where success would be a rarity. I hope that we can do better than that. Crowds will not be rushing in to watch yet another sad loss. Maybe mid table as a minimum target and a hope for a run to the playoffs (If L2 is any guide we would need a number of attempts!).

 

[Snoop Fog]

This!! but Im pretty certain there is zero chance of it happening.

But back to the OP:

On the pitch I think we'll be fine this season, going forward I'm not so sure and hope more focus is placed on financing players then building projects or off the pitch activity.

Short term project 6k will work but once the buzz from being in league one wares off or the rugby start doing well again I can't see us getting that regularly for home games.

I'm hopeful we can sustain league one football under our current model but as Ive always advocated on the pitch needs to go hand in hand with off the pitch or in fact lead the off the pitch stuff or we'll end up back in league two.

I think the building projects and off the pitch activity is part of the medium/long term plan to be able to finance and attract the better players, although I do appreciate your point and its a fine balance between the 'on' and 'off' field investment. On the one hand we need to plan carefully for the future, on the other we need to sustain a decent League 1 side.

If we were to put the money that's going into the training ground development into the playing budget over the next 2 or 3 season we'd obviously have a better squad and who knows we may even flirt with the Championship for a season or two, but in 5 years time we'd be back where we are now, without the improved facilities.

The bottom line is if we could encourage some external investment as Max has alluded to then we may be able to build towards the Championship much quicker than the current model would allow, if it ever could allow under the current structure.

 

[MJP_Exeter]

I think the building projects and off the pitch activity is part of the medium/long term plan to be able to finance and attract the better players, although I do appreciate your point and its a fine balance between the 'on' and 'off' field investment. On the one hand we need to plan carefully for the future, on the other we need to sustain a decent League 1 side.

If we were to put the money that's going into the training ground development into the playing budget over the next 2 or 3 season we'd obviously have a better squad and who knows we may even flirt with the Championship for a season or two, but in 5 years time we'd be back where we are now, without the improved facilities.

The bottom line is if we could encourage some external investment as Max has alluded to then we may be able to build towards the Championship much quicker than the current model would allow, if it ever could allow under the current structure.

In terms of the championship even under private ownership it would need so much serious investment and would eventually place the club in jeopardy because it would need consistently millions of pounds invested per annum. If you said we fluke a year or two in the prem then maybe ok for a bit but unless we could seriously start attracting crowds of 20,000 plus it is just a pipe dream to have us a consistent championship club

 

[i8cornwall]

I think the building projects and off the pitch activity is part of the medium/long term plan to be able to finance and attract the better players, although I do appreciate your point and its a fine balance between the 'on' and 'off' field investment. On the one hand we need to plan carefully for the future, on the other we need to sustain a decent League 1 side.

If we were to put the money that's going into the training ground development into the playing budget over the next 2 or 3 season we'd obviously have a better squad and who knows we may even flirt with the Championship for a season or two, but in 5 years time we'd be back where we are now, without the improved facilities.

The bottom line is if we could encourage some external investment as Max has alluded to then we may be able to build towards the Championship much quicker than the current model would allow, if it ever could allow under the current structure.

I probably right, apologies I wasn't reffing to the training ground in my post as I fully appreciate that work needed doing in one form or another regardless if it attracts better players or what ever league we found ourselves in.

I was meaning more around future projects that the club might think up or have an idea towards doing.

I don't believe we'll ever be a championship club under trust ownership I'm afraid nor do I think we'd achieve it under private ownership unless they were vastly wealthy which isn't going to happen.

 

[Mr Jinx]

Now that all the excitement of promotion is dying down, and the doubters have been proved wrong in that we do want to progress in the EFL reality is starting to kick in.

Firstly the reality of being a supporter owned club in League one (division 3 old money) in 2022. Whilst you expect the big boys to outgun us for players, however we are seeing the "minnows" with purportedly wealthy backers to attract "star names" or quality players who we may or may not have been interested in, despite record season ticket sales and the attraction of playing in a higher division and again the opportunity to live in God's own County. I know this has always been the case but this season it is more apparent with the likes of Crawley signing Telford, and when we were in the fourth division we could get by with what we had and functioned as a team. However up a league we will need more quality in the squad, and I am sure that there are a number of players whose agents are overpricing their talents (similar to the current housing market) and their demands will reduce as the season encroaches. But it is a problem

Secondly, the initial talk is retaining and consolidating our position in League one, I feel that our current squad with a couple of additions should hold their own in the division, however over time what is the future? We have relied on a mix of seasoned pros, mixed with perceived average signings and academy players to form a cohesive successful squad, which again has worked well over the years, the future will be different. Will we be getting the number of academy products through the system, with the increase in quality in the division, as we are finding will we be able to attract the seasoned pros that can also help support our system. How imperative to our survival is project 6000 (or whatever it's called), do we need this many supporters for every game to balance the books.

Thirdly what are our ambitions now that we have left the fourth division behind us, do we want to progress to the second division, and all the extra cost that that would bring, or is it just a case of consolidating in league one until the time comes for us to return to the fourth division. If we stagnate in division three, then will supporter interest wane as this could be perceived as no ambition, therefore causing more pressure on the budget. How much longer have we got of the Ollie monies to support the club infrastructure, as Matt has said if we had all our academy products in the one team it would be one helluva team, but there would be no club so we will still need to sell

It is a fine balancing act and I would like to think that we could dip our toes in the waters of the championship just once in my life time but not at all costs, as with everything in this world money seems to be the major problem to progress so what are the ways forward?

Where will we be in 2027

I recently had a chat along these lines with my Lincoln City fan friend.

He said that at some point, not too long after they get promoted (2 or 3 seasons), teams that have a 5k fan base (or less) that get promoted to L1, reach a nadir, after which time reality bites and they get relegated again. He fully expects Lincoln to get relegated next season, said nadir having been reached.

With that in mind, what can we do to prevent getting relegated again within 3 seasons? I haven't got the answers I'm afraid.

 

[Spoonz Red E]

The majority of Championship clubs in recent year have spent more than their turnover and have accrued huge debt.

Whatever ownership model the club has or will have - if we should get to the Championship I would hope we stick to the sensible 55% of turnover level, put up as good a show as we can and bank whatever we can.

The top two tiers of UK football involve silly money and the end product for those clubs who lose out on the gamble of going for Premiership football is usually crash and burn, instability or ceding total control to whoever has the purse strings and hoping for the best.

It can work for a Club - e.g. Brentford - but that type of success will be rare unless the wider financial conditions change.

For now, keep the principles that are working and apply them as rigorously as we can at this level.

 

[SaintJames]

I think we will be o.k. as well, the momentum and will to win built up last season will carry us through I'm sure. All I've ever wanted was club development (ground and infrastructure) and an established league 1 team. Our ground is no longer an embarassment and we have a team that has enough youth on its side to ensure a solid future, not many clubs can say that. I'm happy with my club and don't want it selling out to private ownership in any way. Hard to say but I'd rather be relegated.

It's just not as black and white as you are stating. Nobody on this thread is advocating a sell out to any Tom, Dick or Harold as a private owner. A hybrid model can take any number of formats. For example, five to ten small local business people buy £25,000 worth of shares each with a comittment to do so for each year they are on the Board. This may only amount to a tiny % of the shareholding but adds up to £250k a year into club coffers. Or a share issue for any Trust member putting £1,000 in again to buy a tiny share which can only be sold back to the Trust to be re-issued to another Trust member. These are just two examples off the top of my head that would bring in 'private' investment at zero risk to Trust ownership

 

[DB9]

Regarding the OP, I do think the club maybe at a crossroads with how they move on from here. This promotion and our last one are poles apart, Now we have a stadium to be proud of and the start of a very new exciting chapter at the C&F with the new development which, Hopefully will bring in more kids to start their career paths with us. L1 next season i think will be tough and if we really struggle it would be like the hard work to get there would be undone in an instance and i do think a must is to be there after next season. As for the Academy, We talk about how players have come through and played for the 1st team and moved on to bigger and better things but in reality it hasn't happened for a while now and those players who've made the 1st team recently are plying their trade with us, Which i think is great but it begs the question (To me anway) is what do we want from our Academy? Players that are really going places and move on after only a season or so or players that will "Only" be ever good for a team at our level (What ever that may be)? Its a lot to ask the Academy to produce both types or even find both types.

We are still having the benefit's of Ollie's transfer (Brilliant bit of business by the club ) but it won't last forever and the Ethan "Saga" is dragging on and who know how we will benefit from that in the future, I'm not too up to speed with who we have but a couple of names are mentioned and while they seem to have great potential we do not know yet if that potential will be playing for us at our level or the potential of playing much higher which in return will be financially benefical for the club in the long term (Like Ollie's transfer)

The good team/manager/fan relationship last season was the best I've seen at the club, We the fans were the actual 12th man and really helped them over the line, Only have to look at the brilliant media teams work to see that and i hope that relationship continues in what will be a tough season ahead.

I'm not going to go on too much about investment etc, All i will say is that the limitations of our model is there for everyone to see and we do walk a tightrope to keep it on the plus side, Being in L1 the club will know we'll get a few more quid and also will have to pay more for players, My only thing is that if we're in the market for players but can only pay "L2 Money" then that is where we could end up sooner rather than later, Mentioned on here about clubs paying silly money etc and they could end up going to the wall to me is way off the mark, We've just been through the worst few seasons in history for football with the pandemic and predictions of up to a dozen clubs going to the wall, Well that never happened and TBH we can only control what we spend and not worry or look on with envy what other clubs do.

As for the next few years, I would love to see us consolidate in L1, Get the Academy redevelopment up and running and see if that really encourages talented youngsters to sign for us, As for going up from there, To me that would be a dream come true, But i don't want us to run before we can walk, Still good to have that dream IMO. One thing i will never say is if we went down it "Won't be the end of the world" or "Nevermind, Look at this or that club" to me if we did do a quick return to L2 then all our hard work in recent seasons would have been wasted but that is just my opinion.

 

[Boyo]

I recently had a chat along these lines with my Lincoln City fan friend.

He said that at some point, not too long after they get promoted (2 or 3 seasons), teams that have a 5k fan base (or less) that get promoted to L1, reach a nadir, after which time reality bites and they get relegated again. He fully expects Lincoln to get relegated next season, said nadir having been reached.

With that in mind, what can we do to prevent getting relegated again within 3 seasons? I haven't got the answers I'm afraid.

Lincoln have been averaging 8-9k crowds for a few years so should have the budgets to stay in L1 beyond the typical 3 years or so. I’d really like to know what Lincoln have done to suddenly increase the crowds and maintain it.