Politics Today

[IndoMike]

As usual Brexiteers trying to avoid taking responsibility for their decision - expect to see more of it as the consequences hit home.

Maybe it is the wrong type of Brexit. Ha Ha.

They said they wanted to take back control but now they have it they don't want the accountability. Everything is everyone else's fault. Ironic, what?

 

[lamrobhero]

Reading accounts of Kier Starmer's speech makes depressing reading. The challenge for Labour is to translate socialism (challenging and diffusing power) for the modern era. If Labour cannot do that then it has no future. A country where there is a monoculture of The Tories and The Tories Mark 2 has a bleak future.

 

[IndoMike]

I thought Labour adopted a position of renegotiating the WA with the EU, then putting that renegotiation to a 2nd referendum with most of Labour campaigning against it (yes against the deal they had renegotiated), but Corbyn himself would be neutral, neither for or against.

Coming full out for a second ref would have been a much clearer policy,and might actually have been more successful.

At the time the argument was that the people had spoken and that it would be anti-democratic to go against their decision. I don't remember anyone from the Tory party supporting the idea of a 2nd referendum, do you? The feeling was that the people were tired of all the talk so just get it done
Obviously I think the 2nd referendum should have been held so that the people could vote knowing the details of the deal, not just in a vague ideology . However, ironically, there is still no deal. So much for getting on with it, oven ready deal, Ra Ra Ra etc

 

[lamrobhero]

Meanwhile in the USA

Why Is The Right So Scared Of A Democratic Socialist? | All In | MSNBC

 

[Mr Jinx]

Reading accounts of Kier Starmer's speech makes depressing reading. The challenge for Labour is to translate socialism (challenging and diffusing power) for the modern era. If Labour cannot do that then it has no future. A country where there is a monoculture of The Tories and The Tories Mark 2 has a bleak future.

For Labour to ever win again they firstly have to become Tory lite (like New Labour) then win over the Murdochs. Good luck that ever happening again in my lifetime (max next 30 yrs). Sir Kier can spout off barnstorming speech after barnstorming speech, it will make little difference.

 

[IndoMike]

Reading accounts of Kier Starmer's speech makes depressing reading. The challenge for Labour is to translate socialism (challenging and diffusing power) for the modern era. If Labour cannot do that then it has no future. A country where there is a monoculture of The Tories and The Tories Mark 2 has a bleak future.

I believe the reality is that a truly socialist government will never get elected in the UK. The interesting thing is that in terms of
humour, music and the arts in general the Brits are quite non- conservative if not anarchic. Yet in daily life they are conservative with a small "c" and *compliant.They queue, they obey the traffic lights, they tend to vote Conservative rather than Labour.
The fact is we have to rid ourselves of Johnson, and only a centre-left party can achieve that. Blair knew that : Starmer knows it. First get power, then begin the genuine levelling up and meritocracy : it will never happen under Johnson

* Usually compliant, but some are fed up with all the on - off stuff and as predicted the longer restrictions are in place the less likely it is that everyone will comply

 

[DB9]

For Labour to ever win again they firstly have to become Tory lite (like New Labour) then win over the Murdochs. Good luck that ever happening again in my lifetime (max next 30 yrs). Sir Kier can spout off barnstorming speech after barnstorming speech, it will make little difference.

I'll agree Labour have to look at how Tony Bair and John Smith (RIP) before him managed to turn Labour into a credible, potential Government but i think you do a disservice to Starmer, He took over in April and has IMO done more than Corbyn did in 3-4 years. I think you are stuck on this second ref thing, It has gone, finished, overwith and you need to accept it, He has, Much as you want to deny this he has said time and time again, By 2024 Brexit will be this big success (According to Brexiteers) and will be off the radar and there are going to far more important things to worry about. As for umpteen barnstorming speeches Johnson is guilty as hell with that too and most get undermined within 24 hrs (Unless you're a Daily Express reader, Which seems to be the last bastion of team Boris)

 

[Mr Jinx]

I think you are stuck on this second ref thing, It has gone, finished, overwith and you need to accept it, He has,

I have moved on; it's pretty much done bar a bit more shouting. The thing is, in 2024 it won't be forgotten. It'll be exhumed, and dressed up again with bells and whistles.

Remember the General Election in 2015? In the run up to it, Cameron played on the 2008 recession, Labour breaking the bank and leaving no money left. That was a full 6/7 years before 2015, but there was Cameron plucking Liam Byrne's note out of his pocket in the TV debates and it really struck a chord.

Starmer's uber Remainer credentials and push for a Second Referendum will become the equivalent of Liam Byrne's note.

 

[lamrobhero]

Remember the General Election in 2015? In the run up to it, Cameron played on the 2008 recession, Labour breaking the bank and leaving no money left. That was a full 6/7 years before 2015, but there was Cameron plucking Liam Byrne's note out of his pocket in the TV debates and it really struck a chord.

The 2008 recession originated in the capitalist financial system. The fact that Labour could not call it out for what it was shows how Tory Mark 2 they had become.

 

[DB9]

I have moved on; it's pretty much done bar a bit more shouting. The thing is, in 2024 it won't be forgotten. It'll be exhumed, and dressed up again with bells and whistles.

Remember the General Election in 2015? In the run up to it, Cameron played on the 2008 recession, Labour breaking the bank and leaving no money left. That was a full 6/7 years before 2015, but there was Cameron plucking Liam Byrne's note out of his pocket in the TV debates and it really struck a chord.

Starmer's uber Remainer credentials and push for a Second Referendum will become the equivalent of Liam Byrne's note.

The only reason it will come up if Brexit goes belly up, If its deemed a success then it will be in the past, I am amazed that leave are so hell bent on the remain side of things when the Brexit arguement was over with the 2019 GE, Which everyone agrees, Mind the implemetation of it is getting tricky, Next big date is 31st Dec, Good job the fireworks have all been cancelled.