Politics Today

[arthur]

Interesting to listen to ex Supreme Court judge Lord Sumption on Newsnight.

He said that:

1. Either the Scottish Court or the England & Wales Divisional Court is wrong on the rulings last week. The law in Scotland is the same as elsewhere in the U.K. on this issue.

2. The more orthodox view of the Divisional Court is probably to be preferred to the reasoning of the Scottish Court.

3. Judges should be very careful not to make judgments that are really political decisions.

4. The government has acted disgracefully in the Prorogation process and it will serve them right if they lose. This might persuade some judges to depart from the orthodox reasoning.

Sounds like he might have found for the government while boxing Boris’s ears reasonably hard.

Yes, I saw that and was hugely impressed. A member of the elite, calmly and accurately explaining the interface between the legal and political considerations. When people of this standing and experience are rubbished for being not sufficiently "on the side of the people" I do genuinely worry about what's happening in this country..

And there was a lovely moment when Maitlis asked him if Johnson was telling a lie when he said he was going to leave on 31/10 without a deal but would not break the law. "No, that's not a lie, it's an absurdity".

Like you I think the Supreme Court will dismiss the Miller/Major petition and overturn the ruling of the Scottish Court. And I think they will be right to do so. The question is, what happens if Johnson asks the Queen to prorogue again. I would hope she would call a meeting of her entire Privy Council (not just a quorate three) and delegate the decision to them...

 

[arthur]

1). Today Cameron said he regrets that he called for the referendum and that his Remain campaign failed. He took responsibility for the ensuing fark up and derided Johnson and Gove.

Pity he didn't do that at the time. This ridiculous man was so keen to avoid "blue on blue conflict" that he gave the charlatans in Vote Leave a free run. Not much blue on blue conflict now, is there?

Perhaps if he's watched a video of Tony Benn and Roy Jenkins tearing lumps out of eachother in the 1975 referendum campaign he might have done better. Better still, he could have watched Harold Wilson take precisely no part in the campaign, thus making the debate about the issue at hand rather than whether you wanted to give the government a good kicking...

Pillock

 

[IndoMike]

I've been bashing Cameron forever on these threads and made the same point that you gave reiterated. The man was lily-livered and negligent.
I recall that line at the end of Bridge Over the River Kwai : "Oh my God : What have I done?"

 

[Mr Jinx]

1). Today Cameron said he regrets that he called for the referendum and that his Remain campaign failed. He took responsibility for the ensuing fark up and derided Johnson and Gove.
2). Cameron's problem was that he couldn't deal with UKIP politically, so he took a huge risk to overcome that. He caved in for political expediency
3). We were talking about Johnson and his trip to Luxembourg. Where does your post suddenly spring from?
4). I thought you were pro UKIP?

1) I didn't catch that bit. I always thought he'd said he didn't regret calling one. But then again, he does now have a book to sell.
2) He thought he could. In fact he was convinced he'd shot the UKIP fox in 2015 when all he had done was trap it for it to escape with bells and whistles on in 2016. Let's face it, Farage and crew were more of a runaway train. It was all going to blow up at some point.
3) My post was in reply to yours that claimed Cameron started all this. He didn't. He could've done things a lot differently however. Claiming he could get some real concessions from Brussels was foolish in the extreme.
4) I was. Back in the day though before Farage left. Now they are just the BNP in all but name.

 

[arthur]

2) He thought he could. In fact he was convinced he'd shot the UKIP fox in 2015 when all he had done was trap it for it to escape with bells and whistles on in 2016. Let's face it, Farage and crew were more of a runaway train. It was all going to blow up at some point.

If we leave with an agreement, or have a referendum and elect to Remain, we'll be back exactly where we were in 2015. A government trying to grapple with the big issues facing the country with a background noise of some people banging on about the EU. Perhaps this time they can simply be ignored or faced down rather than indulged...

 

[geoffwp]

At least a new Parliament will be elected with some different members and with a fresh start.

The squatters who have changed sides will either be legitimised by re-election or turfed out.

If the Parliament is hung then the politicians will have to make the best of the cards that the electorate deals them.

In my opinion Al its not parliament that is broken, its the electorial system. First past the post grossly ignores so many people on all sides.

 

[Mr Jinx]

If we leave with an agreement, or have a referendum and elect to Remain, we'll be back exactly where we were in 2015.

A certain Limahl song springs to mind!

 

[elginCity]

Pillock

.....with a sweaty top lip.

“You’re a raging eurosceptic ! The book is full of EU bashing...” observes Bradby.

Irony being, the Remain ‘leader’ was more of a eurosceptic than the Vote Leave ‘leader’ ! We’ve all been played, and continue to be played, by the Bullingdon Club.

 

[tavyred]

Of course its expected of you. Yer fekkin cornish!!

Then I deserve your sympathy not derision.

 

[Alistair20000]

Yes, I saw that and was hugely impressed. A member of the elite, calmly and accurately explaining the interface between the legal and political considerations. When people of this standing and experience are rubbished for being not sufficiently "on the side of the people" I do genuinely worry about what's happening in this country..

And there was a lovely moment when Maitlis asked him if Johnson was telling a lie when he said he was going to leave on 31/10 without a deal but would not break the law. "No, that's not a lie, it's an absurdity".

Like you I think the Supreme Court will dismiss the Miller/Major petition and overturn the ruling of the Scottish Court. And I think they will be right to do so. The question is, what happens if Johnson asks the Queen to prorogue again. I would hope she would call a meeting of her entire Privy Council (not just a quorate three) and delegate the decision to them...

A decision along the lines we agree might be accompanied by some appropriate warnings. There might certainly be circumstances in which a prorogation could be unlawful.

I don't think the government has behaved at all well over the prorogation but there are plenty of other ass holes misbehaving in Parliament just now causing even more damage.