Leyton Orient FC

[Jason H]

For many clubs (worst culprits are Southend) HMRC are an overdraft facility. They'll pay up, no trouble.

Southend really grate with me - it costs the taxpayer every time they don't bother paying HMRC until the winding up order comes along.

 

[Grecian's The Word]

HMRC? what a surprise...bloodsucking arseholes....

Yeah, why should they be made to pay taxes that they are legally obliged to?

Feel for the supporters and all, but just another club being used as a quasi-money laundering operation and which has become a basket case within three years as a result. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Information]

HMRC? what a surprise...bloodsucking arseholes....

So the club take money from a players wages Tax and Insurance each month

And spend it on something else rather than pay their taxes

How is that the fault of Revenue ??

 

[Snoop Fog]

HMRC? what a surprise...bloodsucking arseholes....

The bloodsucking arseholes are the non tax payers of this world because everyone else has to pay for them!

 

[malcolms]

I'm presuming that in the main, the responses to my very specific post has come from regular PAYE contributors? It wasn't a particular point in defence of Orient or any other business who legitimately owe tax. It was a comment on the default response by the HMRC to any outstanding debt (be it right or wrong) which is to look to wind the company up or threaten to do it. They often do this with little or no justification and have closed down numerous companies who could have been saved (along with 1000's of jobs) if these people had taken a more balanced view. You may not know it but at this time of year HMRC send out all sort of storybook demands in the hope that they will be paid, they then follow it up with threats of legal action. I don't know enough of the Orient case to judge but, clearly the owner has plenty of funds to clear whatever debt is outstanding so I doubt it will go much further....

 

[David Treharne]

More in-depth coverage of this at;

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/01/leyton-orient-served-winding-up-order-over-unpaid-tax-bills

David Conn has a particular interest in this, as you may (or may not) remember his articles when he wrote for "The Independent" about events at Exeter City with Russell & Lewis. They threatened to sue him, but they never did and he had the backing of the editorial team at "The Indy"

 

[iscalad]

I'm presuming that in the main, the responses to my very specific post has come from regular PAYE contributors? It wasn't a particular point in defence of Orient or any other business who legitimately owe tax. It was a comment on the default response by the HMRC to any outstanding debt (be it right or wrong) which is to look to wind the company up or threaten to do it. They often do this with little or no justification and have closed down numerous companies who could have been saved (along with 1000's of jobs) if these people had taken a more balanced view. You may not know it but at this time of year HMRC send out all sort of storybook demands in the hope that they will be paid, they then follow it up with threats of legal action. I don't know enough of the Orient case to judge but, clearly the owner has plenty of funds to clear whatever debt is outstanding so I doubt it will go much further....

Maybe their accountant took his eye off the ball.

 

[Red Devon]

Proper club Leyton Orient hope they can get through this mess on and off the pitch.

 

[eurogrecian]

Fingers crossed for Orient.
Yet another example of 'businessmen' running a decent Club into a wall.
The Trust has some downsides and is a bit of a work in progress, but thankfully we should never have to go back to that sort of management.

 

[GrecianInWales]

I'm presuming that in the main, the responses to my very specific post has come from regular PAYE contributors? It wasn't a particular point in defence of Orient or any other business who legitimately owe tax. It was a comment on the default response by the HMRC to any outstanding debt (be it right or wrong) which is to look to wind the company up or threaten to do it. They often do this with little or no justification and have closed down numerous companies who could have been saved (along with 1000's of jobs) if these people had taken a more balanced view. You may not know it but at this time of year HMRC send out all sort of storybook demands in the hope that they will be paid, they then follow it up with threats of legal action. I don't know enough of the Orient case to judge but, clearly the owner has plenty of funds to clear whatever debt is outstanding so I doubt it will go much further....

It shouldn't go much further. It may do if an owner who seems hell bent on taking the club to pieces decides he can't be bothered to pay up.

Putting to one side whatever your feelings are towards HMRC from an SME perspective, but in the case of football clubs, I think few would give the clubs much sympathy.

There was a period towards the end of the late 90s and early 00s where a lot of clubs tended to use HMRC and tax payments as an extended overdraft facility. There was also a spate of insolvencies and CVAs, where the taxman lost out so they started to become a lot more aggressive towards football clubs in general, and it tends to be one industry where they pursue quite an aggressive strategy now.

In 2012 (I think) HMRC lost a court case to remove the preferred creditors rule, whereby other clubs and players got paid ahead of the taxman and have doubled down since then.

Winding up orders have been a lot less common of late (although as Jason has noted, Southend tend to take the **** quite a bit), but if there's a sniff of a potential insolvency, HMRC tend to be in with a winding up order pretty quickly.

Of course, once you get below the preferred creditors and HMRC, you tend to get a lot of local businesses who take a big hit when a football club goes under.

I have very little sympathy for any football club that doesn't pay its taxes.