arthur
Very well known Exeweb poster
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2004
- Messages
- 11,751
In the course if a debate about the breakaway of some Labour MPs on the Social Club forum, I quoted what Suzanne Moore had said in the Guardian. An Exewebber rebutted this by saying “Literally negative interest in what the Guardian's arch-transphobe has to say on anything.”
I replied asking what a transphobe was, and whether this was “a feminist who believed that people with penises aren’t women”.
The Exeweb mods decided that this remark was transphobic and removed it. This I find deeply concerning. It implies that any questioning around transgender issues is liable to be classed as “transphobic”, even though a debate is still very much in progress. The whole issue of legally self defining one’s gender is yet to be decided and the consultation is still going on. At the core of this debate is how one defines gender and there is a sizeable and respectable body of opinion which says that self identifying alone is not enough, i.e. a person with a penis deciding they are a woman cannot legally be a woman. This was all I said, yet it was deemed transphobic.
For what its worth my position is this.
I have no issue whatever with transsexuals, people like Jan Morris who undergo complex sex change procedures. I also have no issue with men who want me to think of them as women, who dress and make up accordingly and ask me to call them by a woman’s name. I am quite happy for them to do that and I will use whatever personal pronoun they request when addressing/referring to them.
But I will not accept that they are legally women and entitled to use spaces reserved for women or compete in women’s sporting events. Simply “self identifying” is wrong on so many levels.
Firstly, if I were to self identify as a black person, I don’t imagine the black community would be particularly enamoured of my behaviour. I would be told that I could not possibly understand what it is to be black, the centuries of oppression and degradation they have suffered at the hands of white people, and all the other factors that make up black identity. The community might welcome my solidarity and support, but the idea that I would be embraced as one of their own is ludicrous and it would be deeply insulting for me to hope for that.
Secondly there is no way I can legally change my racial identity anyway. If I cannot legally self identify as black, why should I be able legally to self identify as a woman?
Thirdly, and probably most importantly, this focus on identity and “who you feel you are” borders on the decadent, or “bourgeois individualism gone mad”. The point about any struggle for rights is that its about changing society, its structures and behaviours. Focusing on “my identity” and how hurt I feel when Germaine Greer turns up and says something I don’t like is nothing less than a cop out from the wider struggle.
Gender equality is about society rather than the individual. If men or women feel uncomfortable with the roles and stereotypes that society imposes on them, then challenge them. I see nothing progressive in dressing up in a narrow caricature of womanhood (long hair, lipstick and a dress) and trying to prevent women having a voice. People with penises have been haranguing women for centuries – it’s time it stopped.
I hope Exeweb will review its policy of judging any questioning or discussion of the transgender agenda as transphobic. It goes back to my original question – what is transphobia anyway?
I replied asking what a transphobe was, and whether this was “a feminist who believed that people with penises aren’t women”.
The Exeweb mods decided that this remark was transphobic and removed it. This I find deeply concerning. It implies that any questioning around transgender issues is liable to be classed as “transphobic”, even though a debate is still very much in progress. The whole issue of legally self defining one’s gender is yet to be decided and the consultation is still going on. At the core of this debate is how one defines gender and there is a sizeable and respectable body of opinion which says that self identifying alone is not enough, i.e. a person with a penis deciding they are a woman cannot legally be a woman. This was all I said, yet it was deemed transphobic.
For what its worth my position is this.
I have no issue whatever with transsexuals, people like Jan Morris who undergo complex sex change procedures. I also have no issue with men who want me to think of them as women, who dress and make up accordingly and ask me to call them by a woman’s name. I am quite happy for them to do that and I will use whatever personal pronoun they request when addressing/referring to them.
But I will not accept that they are legally women and entitled to use spaces reserved for women or compete in women’s sporting events. Simply “self identifying” is wrong on so many levels.
Firstly, if I were to self identify as a black person, I don’t imagine the black community would be particularly enamoured of my behaviour. I would be told that I could not possibly understand what it is to be black, the centuries of oppression and degradation they have suffered at the hands of white people, and all the other factors that make up black identity. The community might welcome my solidarity and support, but the idea that I would be embraced as one of their own is ludicrous and it would be deeply insulting for me to hope for that.
Secondly there is no way I can legally change my racial identity anyway. If I cannot legally self identify as black, why should I be able legally to self identify as a woman?
Thirdly, and probably most importantly, this focus on identity and “who you feel you are” borders on the decadent, or “bourgeois individualism gone mad”. The point about any struggle for rights is that its about changing society, its structures and behaviours. Focusing on “my identity” and how hurt I feel when Germaine Greer turns up and says something I don’t like is nothing less than a cop out from the wider struggle.
Gender equality is about society rather than the individual. If men or women feel uncomfortable with the roles and stereotypes that society imposes on them, then challenge them. I see nothing progressive in dressing up in a narrow caricature of womanhood (long hair, lipstick and a dress) and trying to prevent women having a voice. People with penises have been haranguing women for centuries – it’s time it stopped.
I hope Exeweb will review its policy of judging any questioning or discussion of the transgender agenda as transphobic. It goes back to my original question – what is transphobia anyway?