should we have a banner at St James Park?

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BigBanker

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How can you define which is genuine? ISIS and other terror groups have already said they're using this crisis to smuggle Jihads in Europe / UK
And that's a good reason to deny help to the 99.9999% of innocent refugees who they are hiding among? Jeesh.

People like you play right into the hands of ISIS etc. They want you to turn your back on the innocent refugees so that they can suppress them and turn them against the West. You're just too blinkered to realise. Do you really believe every claim that ISIS make, or is it only when it suits your argument?
 

ECFC Music

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As GiE has said, this should not be a political issue, it is a humanitarian one. There are calls from all sides of the political spectrum for this government to open its eyes and do more to help.

It is welcome news that their position seems to be shifting and I understand the reasons why the focus should be on refugees bordering Syria - that is a laudable strategy, but meanwhile there is a humanitarian imperative to also help refugees already in Europe.
Maybe in the short to medium term focus is on the humanitarian aspect but it is also the political issue that urgently needs to be addressed.
 

ECFC traveller

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Clearly our views are too far apart to ever even come close to some sort of agreement on any of this.

But...

'Thousands being refused treatment on the NHS' - YOU ARE LUCKY to have been born into a country where a state funded health system even exists.

'Elderly suffering and not affording to heat their own homes' - More the fault of our City bankers than the Syrian refugees fleeing a war zone, but I agree, very sad. The fact remains though that the vast, vast majority of our elderly are better off than most of the elderly people around the world...in fact they will have comfortably outlived the life expectancy of many parts of the world.

'War veterans on the streets' - There may be some, but you, Sir, are reading far too much of the Daily Mail and seem to have lost all sense of perspective. We're hardly tripping over them. I'm not saying that our country is perfect, but if you can't recognise that we are IN GENERAL in a position of huge privilege then you're more blinkered than even I give you credit for.

With regard to people running from a civil war, why should they not have the right to flee a war that they probably didn't even want? I'm sure you'd be right on the front line if we had a civil war here because you're clearly well'ard.....let's hope so because if you did ever want to flee persecution or a horrible war in this country you might well find that nobody felt that it was their 'responsibility' to help you...
Of course we're lucky to be born in a country with healthcare - But that doesn't mean people aren't still dying in this country and being refused treatment - Charity starts at home, and it needs to be delt with.

I'd blame more to do with the European Environmental policy as to the affordable homes malarkey, rather than City bankers who pay back at an interest to the state eventually.

Hardly tripping over them? What sort of an argument is that...There are hundreds on the streets across the country, just because there isn't one you encounter on the way to work or on a social shopping trip doesn't mean they aren't there, and in numbers. Try London?

Once again, you're making the incorrect assumption that this country isn't 'doing anything' and 'isn't our responsibility' I reiterate the figures from the The financial tracking service. We are doing MORE than our fair share, and arguably more than any other country in the world. The argument about housing them and accepting them onto our soil is not going to solve the problem, and there are many many other places they can go that are a lot less dense and aren't at public service breaking point. We have accepted 10,000 - Germany have accepted 40,000 (They look so great, don't they?) until you look at available land mass, when in reality, they're not that much better than us for taking on refugee's, just lack a large handful of millions behind us in aid.
 

BigBanker

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Of course we're lucky to be born in a country with healthcare - But that doesn't mean people aren't still dying in this country and being refused treatment - Charity starts at home, and it needs to be delt with.

I'd blame more to do with the European Environmental policy as to the affordable homes malarkey, rather than City bankers who pay back at an interest to the state eventually.

Hardly tripping over them? What sort of an argument is that...There are hundreds on the streets across the country, just because there isn't one you encounter on the way to work or on a social shopping trip doesn't mean they aren't there, and in numbers. Try London?

Once again, you're making the incorrect assumption that this country isn't 'doing anything' and 'isn't our responsibility' I reiterate the figures from the The financial tracking service. We are doing MORE than our fair share, and arguably more than any other country in the world. The argument about housing them and accepting them onto our soil is not going to solve the problem, and there are many many other places they can go that are a lot less dense and aren't at public service breaking point. We have accepted 10,000 - Germany have accepted 40,000 (They look so great, don't they?) until you look at available land mass, when in reality, they're not that much better than us for taking on refugee's, just lack a large handful of millions behind us in aid.
Charity begins at home? Not for me. Charity begins with the most needy.

I guess that difference in our views mean that we'll never come close to seeing eye to eye on this.
 

ECFC traveller

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And that's a good reason to deny help to the 99.9999% of innocent refugees who they are hiding among? Jeesh.

People like you play right into the hands of ISIS etc. They want you to turn your back on the innocent refugees so that they can suppress them and turn them against the West. You're just too blinkered to realise. Do you really believe every claim that ISIS make, or is it only when it suits your argument?
They're not all refugee's as I said. Before this morning most people felt extremely sorry for that boys parents (The one who was drowned?)

Until they realised they were economical migrants, not genuine refugee's. And after private healthcare in Europe so the father could get new teeth.
 

BigBanker

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They're not all refugee's as I said. Before this morning most people felt extremely sorry for that boys parents (The one who was drowned?)

Until they realised they were economical migrants, not genuine refugee's. And after private healthcare in Europe so the father could get new teeth.
From what I've read the reason he needed new teeth is because he's previous teeth were pulled out as a means of torture...

So once you realised he was an 'economical migrant' (which may or may not be true) you no longer felt sorry for a man who had just seen his two sons and wife drown? Wow.

Anyway, no point us continuing this discussion. Views are too far apart. I genuinely hope that you are never treated with the same lack of compassion that you clearly show for anyone who doesn't fit into your 'charity begins at home' rule.
 
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Grecian2K

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Good old Travvy.

Though I reckon he should change the last word of his location to "age"

NO SURRENDER TO THE E.R.A. eh?
 

Ian Mancey

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The plight of the refugees is tragic, apauling, devastating. The picture of the baby is heartbreaking there is no denying that! and Headlined the BBC news this morning.
The very next item on the BBC news stated that the UK is 150,000 houses short and we need more houses built for rental not 5star accommodation.
The next item on the news stated the NHS is severely underfunded, not enough doctors and all the hospital beds are full!
So for me the questions are, however tragic the refugee crisis is, can we cope?
where will we put them? and at the expense of who?
Plymouth have stated that they are ready and able to take refugees, but they need Government money to do so!
so theyre not ready and they cant take them because they havent got the money!

Not looking for an argument but I think we need to stop and really think!
walk around Exeter at 10pm and see how many homeless there are, should we help them first?
a massive debate!
 

ECFC traveller

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From what I've read the reason he needed new teeth is because he's previous teeth were pulled out as a means of torture...

So once you realised he was an 'economical migrant' (which may or may not be true) you no longer felt sorry for a man who had just seen his two sons and wife drown? Wow.

Anyway, no point us continuing this discussion. Views are too far apart. I genuinely hope that you are never treated with the same lack of compassion that you clearly show for anyone who doesn't fit into your 'charity begins at home' rule.
I still obviously feel sorry for their loss, don't try to manipulate the conversation like that. What I am saying is the blood is on the parents' hands for making a journey across Europe for private healthcare for teeth whilst putting their children in a situation like that and not those of us 'not doing enough to help'.

Don't try to be narrow minded and stupid enough to make it out as if i'm rejected them all and don't want to help them. That's a sick thing to do. I have given alternatives and I have informed you (Which it sounds like you weren't aware of, and are choosing to ignore) the fact that WE are giving more in aid than 7/8 other European Countries combined! We are doing our share to help them. I'm not arguing against giving money to aid the refugee's. Just because my solution doesn't involve taking them onto our shores, doesn't mean I'm not offering credibly alternatives. Money, refugee camps, and countries to take them in who are more of their same cultural background. How dare you try to make it out as if I'm saying "Yeah, they can die, i don't care".
 
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arthur

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I wouldn't be as confident as you..

"Islamic State, also referred to as IS and ISIS, is believed to be actively smuggling deadly gunmen across the sparsely-guarded 565-mile Turkish border and on to richer European nations, he revealed.

There are now more than 4,000 covert ISIS gunmen "ready" across the European Union, he claimed.

The operative said the undercover infiltration was the beginning of a larger plot to carry out revenge attacks in the West in retaliation for the US-led coalition airstrikes."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees.
Thanks for the Dan Hamman clip - he's always interesting and articulate. And I can just about cope with the thought of the Daily Mail as reliable source material, though I prefer this approach

But expecting anyone to believe a word of what is printed in the Express - even Richard Desmond wouldn't go that far...
 
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