Retained List

[Rosencrantz]

I get this argument to an extent. However, it seems to overlook the fact that, in relative terms, most of the guys coming through the academy will be earning peanuts.

If, for instance, we genuinely believe that Charlie Hanson has what it takes to make a professional footballer then surely an argument could be made that for the sake of less than 20k a year, he might be worth a punt. Not everyone develops at the same rate [think Jordan Storey, who rose from nowhere to the Championship in a matter of months] and sometimes 'lesser fancied' youngsters improve past others.

I think a certain standard has also to come into it. Say with Charlie Hanson we think he can have a professional career because he is quite similar to Jamie Reid and we think he can reach that level. We think Sonny Cox can reach a much higher level though. And we have George Spencer who we think is at the same level as Charlie now but a year younger and has more time to improve to a level we think is suitable for us.

Hypothesis of course but I would guess that is the kind of thinking going on. Just having the potential of being a professional now doesn't necessarily mean that we think the player has the potential level to play at ours, even if we were still in L2.

 

[Egg]

I think a certain standard has also to come into it. Say with Charlie Hanson we think he can have a professional career because he is quite similar to Jamie Reid and we think he can reach that level. We think Sonny Cox can reach a much higher level though. And we have George Spencer who we think is at the same level as Charlie now but a year younger and has more time to improve to a level we think is suitable for us.

Hypothesis of course but I would guess that is the kind of thinking going on. Just having the potential of being a professional now doesn't necessarily mean that we think the player has the potential level to play at ours, even if we were still in L2.

I don't altogether disagree with you, but Ollie Watkins, for instance, didn't play a first team game for us between August 2014 and October 2015, during which time he was at Weston-super-Mare. It just seems overly simple to assume that because Sonny Cox was better than Charlie Hanson as a 15-year-old the former is destined for the Premier League while the later might, if he's lucky, make a living in the Nationwide League.

Of course, I realise we can't keep everyone on, it's just that I'm not totally sold on this idea that we should allow promising youngsters to leave simply because, at this moment in time, it seems someone else has a more obvious pathway to the first team.

 

[Christian]

Maybe if money was no object we would keep hold of them a little longer and see what happens....but realistically we don't have the resources

 

[tonykellowfan]

I also do wonder if some of the clubs statements about the released players are overly "kind" shall we say as a way of helping them both now and in the future.

They are not going to say "we released player x because he is crap".

 

[Christian]

I also do wonder if some of the clubs statements about the released players are overly "kind" shall we say as a way of helping them both now and in the future.

They are not going to say "we released player x because he is crap".

We have no idea why X player has been "released" as you say.......Some of the reasons might actually be non-football related.

 

[Egg]

Maybe if money was no object we would keep hold of them a little longer and see what happens....but realistically we don't have the resources

I get this. I'm simply saying it's not always that straight-forward.

In 2014-15, Ollie Watkins' pathway to the first team was blocked by Graham Cummins, Lee Holmes, Clinton Morrison, Tom Nichols, and Jamie Reid, hence he spent the season on loan at Weston-super-Mare. Should we have allowed him to leave?!

 

[andrew p long]

I think a certain standard has also to come into it. Say with Charlie Hanson we think he can have a professional career because he is quite similar to Jamie Reid and we think he can reach that level. We think Sonny Cox can reach a much higher level though. And we have George Spencer who we think is at the same level as Charlie now but a year younger and has more time to improve to a level we think is suitable for us.....

I think this is right. The 'blocked pathway' is only right to a certain degree and may not be the right expression. To try to put this into numbers..

say the club will only take on academy graduates who reach a ranking of 80/100. If there is one player turning 18 with a ranking of 82 - and no-one else in his position - then that player gets the pro deal.

But in another year there are two players in the same position. One ranked 95 and the other 82. You sign the one on 95 but not the one on 82 because of the limited opportunities etc. So the one on 82 is unlucky - as he would genuinely have got a pro contract in a different year where there wasn't the exceptional player in the same position ranked ahead of him. Hanson (or Nevile) may be an example of this.

But if you have two players in the same position ranked at 95 and 94 - then you sign both as pros. This is a Jay/Watkins scenario where MJ was ranked ahead of Ollie as a teenager and made his first team debut earlier. But we found a way of keeping both (thank heaven!)

 

[Rosencrantz]

I don't altogether disagree with you, but Ollie Watkins, for instance, didn't play a first team game for us between August 2014 and October 2015, during which time he was at Weston-super-Mare. It just seems overly simple to assume that because Sonny Cox was better than Charlie Hanson as a 15-year-old the former is destined for the Premier League while the later might, if he's lucky, make a living in the Nationwide League.

Of course, I realise we can't keep everyone on, it's just that I'm not totally sold on this idea that we should allow promising youngsters to leave simply because, at this moment in time, it seems someone else has a more obvious pathway to the first team.

It is down to their judgement of potential standards though. They always thought Ollie had the potential not just to have a pro career, but do a good job for us and go higher. Just saying that Charlie has potential for a pro career doesn't mean that they think his potential is good enough for a pro career at the level we are looking for.

 

[Boyo]

I get this. I'm simply saying it's not always that straight-forward.

In 2014-15, Ollie Watkins' pathway to the first team was blocked by Graham Cummins, Lee Holmes, Clinton Morrison, Tom Nichols, and Jamie Reid, hence he spent the season on loan at Weston-super-Mare. Should we have allowed him to leave?!

When the Club talk about the "pathway" they mean the players on the journey to the first team. By 2014 Nichols was already established in the first team (28 appearances in 13/14) while Reid was two years older than Ollie and was struggling with injuries. Additionally in the early days, Ollie was more a winger, so I'd suggest there was no blockage

 

[Snoop Fog]

At the end of the day I trust the clubs judgement and reasoning on who to release and who to keep. How many players have we released previously that turn out to be players at our level or above?