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Politics Today

tavyred

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Aug 23, 2004
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I am referring to the Brexiter tradition of insisting that Remainers and their liberal elite ilk dismiss their opponents as thick racist dupes. This is a myth that reinforces the well cultivated victim status but is only seldom found in reality. It is certainly not something I have done - as I have stated on many occasions you are unlikely to change people's minds by gratuitously insulting them.
I’m not sure something can simultaneously be a myth and yet be “seldom found in reality” as well, it can’t be both.
The fact is as we find with the ‘gammon’ jibe, it’s been a very real part of our political discourse for a few years now for left leaning remainer types to accuse those who they disagree with of being thick, racist, xenophobic and if they’re trying to be polite of having their “imaginations captured” by those nasty populist Tories.
Even now, I don’t detect any real desire from those on the progressive side of politics to get down and dirty with its former core vote and enquire as to what their real concerns are, most seem to echo your thoughts and express the desire to wait till it all goes wrong, just so they can say I told you so.
While all that’s happening the Tories are quietly spending billions on them and shoring up their vote at the same time.
 

arthur

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Aug 18, 2004
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11,484
most seem to echo your thoughts and express the desire to wait till it all goes wrong, just so they can say I told you so.
Please supply evidence that I have ever said this
 

IndoMike

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May 9, 2010
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Touring Central Java...
Cold War Steve... Hogarth for the modern era
The problem is that even if cronyism played a big part in the handing out of untendered contracts, Johnson, Hancock et al will simply deny that friends or sponsors were favoured and that's the end of the story. They will say that the situation was urgent so they gave contracts to those they knew and could rely on in the interest of the nation. That's bs of course because the suppliers were lacking in knowledge of the products. Bur there will be no negative consequences and the public in their wisdom won't give a sh*t. Johnson has learnt from Trump that if you have power but break the rules - whether they be legal or ethical- there's nothing much anybody can do about it, even if they care
 

tavyred

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Aug 23, 2004
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Please supply evidence that I have ever said this
Still there's nothing I can do about but look on from the sidelines and enjoy your protestations that trusting that these appalling people care about their supporters is the right thing to do.
 

IndoMike

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May 9, 2010
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Touring Central Java...
I’m not sure something can simultaneously be a myth and yet be “seldom found in reality” as well, it can’t be both.
The fact is as we find with the ‘gammon’ jibe, it’s been a very real part of our political discourse for a few years now for left leaning remainer types to accuse those who they disagree with of being thick, racist, xenophobic and if they’re trying to be polite of having their “imaginations captured” by those nasty populist Tories.
Even now, I don’t detect any real desire from those on the progressive side of politics to get down and dirty with its former core vote and enquire as to what their real concerns are, most seem to echo your thoughts and express the desire to wait till it all goes wrong, just so they can say I told you so.
While all that’s happening the Tories are quietly spending billions on them and shoring up their vote at the same time.
Sigh. Are you saying that it is wrong to call racists "racist" and xenophobes "xenophobic"? To call a spade a spade? Are you denying that racism and xenophobia played some part in the Leave campaign?
Are you denying that racism and xenophobia has been an integral characteristic of the extreme right wing ?
Or that Johnson is known to have made racist and xenophobic comments?
You do know that in our country it is illegal to make racist and xenophobic remarks, don't you?
 

tavyred

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Aug 23, 2004
Messages
13,909
Sigh. Are you saying that it is wrong to call racists "racist" and xenophobes "xenophobic"? To call a spade a spade? Are you denying that racism and xenophobia played some part in the Leave campaign?
Are you denying that racism and xenophobia has been an integral characteristic of the extreme right wing ?
Or that Johnson is known to have made racist and xenophobic comments?
You do know that in our country it is illegal to make racist and xenophobic remarks, don't you?
No.
I’m suggesting that all too often a quite innocent vote for Brexit or indeed sometimes for just having the temerity to vote Tory, illicit’s a response from those on the left to the effect that these people are gammons, thick, racist and xenophobic for voting that particular way. You do get that some cries of racism and the rest are made maliciously Mike? In fact its become a favourite tactic of those on the British left, hence why in part Labour is struggling.
 

arthur

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Aug 18, 2004
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Not good enough Tavy. Where have I indicated I'm waiting for it all to go wrong and say "I told you so?" I must ask you to stop assigning views and positions to me that I don't have, just to reinforce your argument; it should be strong enough to carry the day without resorting to such tactics. It's a nasty habit you've picked up from the likes of Liz Truss, Robert Jenrick et al and I suggest you try to give it up.
 

elginCity

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Jul 29, 2004
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Location
Swindon
The problem is that even if cronyism played a big part in the handing out of untendered contracts, Johnson, Hancock et al will simply deny that friends or sponsors were favoured and that's the end of the story. They will say that the situation was urgent so they gave contracts to those they knew and could rely on in the interest of the nation. That's bs of course ......
Hancock has already said as much, indo. What is left unsaid is that at the beginning of these 'unprecedented times' the emails/telephone calls from bona fide UK PPE suppliers went unanswered, or ignored, whilst the call went out to pals, party donors etc. to those with no industry knowledge whatsoever. The untendered 'fast track VIP' route to riches.

Mr Dechan has bought a £250,000 holiday home in Cornwall and a £50,000 house for his parents in Exeter to add to his £1.5 million, grade II listed property in the Cotswolds.

£50k house in Exeter ? Bloody nora, unlikely to be Old Rydon Lane.
 

arthur

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Aug 18, 2004
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11,484
No.
I’m suggesting that all too often a quite innocent vote for Brexit or indeed sometimes for just having the temerity to vote Tory, illicit’s a response from those on the left to the effect that these people are gammons, thick, racist and xenophobic for voting that particular way. You do get that some cries of racism and the rest are made maliciously Mike? In fact its become a favourite tactic of those on the British left, hence why in part Labour is struggling.
Here we go again. Let's construct an alternative reality and say how dreadful it is. Pack it in why don't you...
 

elginCity

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Jul 29, 2004
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Swindon
Not good enough Tavy. Where have I indicated I'm waiting for it all to go wrong and say "I told you so?"
While you've been away, art, Tavares has been repeatedly 'labouring' the same jibe, like a one-trick pony! :LOL:

.....You’re right Elgy, Martin has indeed called on both sides too cool it, although this BBC story suggests a specific worry about the “Big beasts of the EU”. The only desperation I see is from you and others desperate for your ‘I told you so’ moment.....
.....it speaks to Labour’s attitude on Leave voters that they are still wanting to have their “told you so” moment at their expense. ........
DB.....
Your argument seems to be akin to southern Labour MP’s, lets hope Brexit is a disaster so we can point at the Northerners and have our “told you so” moment at the next election.
.......
 
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