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Politics Today

RedPaul

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It was Hollande by 2016 Ali.
The referendum was a perfect storm of negative factors for those who wanted our EU membership to continue. Some of the blame you lay at the door of the U.K. and some of it in Brussels.
That said, whereas Britain is often because of Brexit accused by the naysayers of committing an act of unfathomable political and economic self harm, IMO it’s not said enough (if at all) that the loss of the UK to the European project was a major geopolitical feck up by the movers and shakers on mainland Europe and despite their rhetoric it’s full effects are yet to be seen.
My mistake Tavy, I mentioned Sarko.

Full effects on all parties nowhere near to be seen, and essentially unknown. I agree to a point that the EU is weaker without the UK but now the British handbrake has been released, will be interesting to see how much further down the road of 'ever closer union' they travel.

Need to come back in 10yrs and see what it all looks like.
 

Stuffy

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Mind Tavy, According to Stuffy's thinking the French and the Germans are preparing to invade Russia!
Thirty years ago Germany was half a country with a brick wall and little in the way of an armaments industry to talk of. Since those not-so-far-off-days, Germany has climbed up the arms exporting league table and now sits comfortably at No4 just behind France. But things are changing rapidly therefore a futher promotion could be in the offing as those two arms giants are merging - click onto "Merger with KMW...


I know I'm repeating myself but after long years of Franco-German disagreements (France wouldn't except that their Leclerc Tank was inferior to the German Leopard) they've thrashed out an agreement whereby Germany will concentrate on battlefied equipment while France have been given carte blanche to build a new fighter jet which, as i've explained before, "all EU States will be obliged to buy in the name of standardisation."

In response to this jet fighter, the UK and others are planning it's own aircfraft called the Tempest (named after the excellent WW2 Hawker Tempest)


Naturally Macron is belatedly trying to put a spoke in it by suggesting other EU States could join the spanking new France/German/Spain Alliance. One hopes that other nations will be aware that France will, as of old, demand "total design leadership" which is what caused them to leave the Eurofighter Typhoon programme when it was denied them.
 

DB9

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Hampshire. Heart's in N Devon
Thirty years ago Germany was half a country with a brick wall and little in the way of an armaments industry to talk of. Since those not-so-far-off-days, Germany has climbed up the arms exporting league table and now sits comfortably at No4 just behind France. But things are changing rapidly therefore a futher promotion could be in the offing as those two arms giants are merging - click onto "Merger with KMW...


I know I'm repeating myself but after long years of Franco-German disagreements (France wouldn't except that their Leclerc Tank was inferior to the German Leopard) they've thrashed out an agreement whereby Germany will concentrate on battlefied equipment while France have been given carte blanche to build a new fighter jet which, as i've explained before, "all EU States will be obliged to buy in the name of standardisation."

In response to this jet fighter, the UK and others are planning it's own aircfraft called the Tempest (named after the excellent WW2 Hawker Tempest)


Naturally Macron is belatedly trying to put a spoke in it by suggesting other EU States could join the spanking new France/German/Spain Alliance. One hopes that other nations will be aware that France will, as of old, demand "total design leadership" which is what caused them to leave the Eurofighter Typhoon programme when it was denied them.
So really you'd prefer it if Germany was still divided and half of it was under the sphere of Russia (USSR). If in 30 years they have gone from hardly any armaments industry to No4 i think perhaps we should look at ourselves on why we couldn't be like that instead of sniping at the Germans for doing really what they do best and that is work hard, After 1945 they had to totally re-build their country, With the help of the Marshall Plan they have become a world powerhouse because they knew as a country you can't leave your people in poverty, Like after 1918, You have to make sure your peoples standard of living is high, Healthcare is good, Transport is good, Food is available etc and that is what they did, In the Western part anyway and after 1990 Western Germany had to do it all over again in the Eastern part because of the failed Communist ideals that were forced upon them by the USSR. So i have no complaints about them doing well, After all we live in a free market democracy, You can't have that when it only suits you.

As for a Franco/German/Spanish Jet project or and whole EU project, Again i say this to you, We as a country voted to Leave, We have left, What the EU does now is nothing to do with us, We will have to compete with them so we'll have to up our game and make sure we design a better jet that the whole world will want to buy instead of any EU jet, Again this is business, A free market, What Leave voters like yourself wanted, To open markets around the world, If people buy the EU jet instead of ours then its tough, Thats the way it goes.

Are you always going to harp on about the EU and how "Unfair" things are blah blah blah. What the EU does, Votes for, Standardise things for, That is for the EU to do, We're not at the table anymore. I must admit Stuffers for a verment Anti-EU, Leave voter you seem to take an awful lot of interest in what they do now, Its like you're jealous of them and its not fair they're doing these things without us, Sorry mate thats the way it is now.
 

Mr Jinx

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And so Sir Kneel spouts off this morning claiming "Labour deserved to lose the Election".

Well, the irony is not lost on me. It was Starmer who persuaded Corbyn to adopt a Second Referendum stance despite warnings that that would see a collapse of support from Labour's Brexit supporters. Starmer counter argued that it would stem the flow of voters that were running to the LibDems with their 'Sloblocks to Brexit' stance. Many warned Stamer back that Labour's Brexiteer base was much larger than their Uber Remainer base. Unfortunately for Corbyn, he took Starmer's advice over the others and the rest is history.

So yes Kier, Labour did deserve to lose the Election, but only because it took your steer. And this is the guy who is supposed to steer Labour to victory in 2024. LMFOA!
 

RedPaul

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And so Sir Kneel spouts off this morning claiming "Labour deserved to lose the Election".

Well, the irony is not lost on me. It was Starmer who persuaded Corbyn to adopt a Second Referendum stance despite warnings that that would see a collapse of support from Labour's Brexit supporters. Starmer counter argued that it would stem the flow of voters that were running to the LibDems with their 'Sloblocks to Brexit' stance. Many warned Stamer back that Labour's Brexiteer base was much larger than their Uber Remainer base. Unfortunately for Corbyn, he took Starmer's advice over the others and the rest is history.

So yes Kier, Labour did deserve to lose the Election, but only because it took your steer. And this is the guy who is supposed to steer Labour to victory in 2024. LMFOA!
I thought Labour adopted a position of renegotiating the WA with the EU, then putting that renegotiation to a 2nd referendum with most of Labour campaigning against it (yes against the deal they had renegotiated), but Corbyn himself would be neutral, neither for or against.

Coming full out for a second ref would have been a much clearer policy,and might actually have been more successful.
 

Rosencrantz

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Tiverton
I thought Labour adopted a position of renegotiating the WA with the EU, then putting that renegotiation to a 2nd referendum with most of Labour campaigning against it (yes against the deal they had renegotiated), but Corbyn himself would be neutral, neither for or against.

Coming full out for a second ref would have been a much clearer policy,and might actually have been more successful.
It would always have been clearer to have a confirmation referendum once details of what Brexit would look like actually was. But then again, we still don't know now. (Apportion blame where you will 😉).
 

elginCity

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Brexit means Brexit means EEA/EFTA
 

RedPaul

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Brexit means Brexit means EEA/EFTA
Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein seem to be pootling along quite happily. Not sure they want Johnson and Co blundering their way into their merry club, telling them how to do things.
If we end up with Icelandic prices of alcohol, there will be a civil war.
 

tavyred

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Brexit means Brexit means EEA/EFTA
Doesn’t that mean FOM and EU budget contributions?
I’m not sure any British political party would survive after taking the UK in to EEA/EFTA.
 

IndoMike

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Yo? No he dicho nada hombre....
 
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