Politics Today

[RedPaul]

I think you're restating that Brexit was still a major factor in the GE and can't discern any difference in your comment about that
Corbyn, although I've always said he had some good ideas, was unpalatable to what is mostly a small "c" society. But I do believe personality also played a significant factor. For example, Brown was probably potentially a better P.M than Blair, but he was a bit arrogant and not user-friendly. Blair won 3 elections and Brown didn't win any. Basically Corbyn came across as a miserable, grumpy sod (like me ) whereas Johnson was jolly BoJo. It matters.

I think most people (maybe not you ) try and be optimistic and positive. Boris gave more of that outlook than Corbyn, yes it is true. I also think 'patriotism' comes into it. Boris came out as pro-Britain, pro standing up for Britain - however trite you may view that.

Corbyn came across as pro-anyone-but-Britain. IRA, Russia, Palestinian terrorists - all received support. He was/is lukewarm on the need for our Armed Forces, lukewarm on the Royal Family, lukewarm on the Union, anti-NATO and absolutely anti-Trident. Any of those positions is fine to take and there are millions who will support those positions. The issue is there are many, many more millions who don't.

 

[IndoMike]

I think most people (maybe not you ) try and be optimistic and positive. Boris gave more of that outlook than Corbyn, yes it is true. I also think 'patriotism' comes into it. Boris came out as pro-Britain, pro standing up for Britain - however trite you may view that.

Corbyn came across as pro-anyone-but-Britain. IRA, Russia, Palestinian terrorists - all received support. He was/is lukewarm on the need for our Armed Forces, lukewarm on the Royal Family, lukewarm on the Union, anti-NATO and absolutely anti-Trident. Any of those positions is fine to take and there are millions who will support those positions. The issue is there are many, many more millions who don't.

Hey, I'm a very optimistic person, but I call a spade a spade. Boris just puts on an act, Pauly, you're too smart not to see through that. It's just pointless cheerleading without any meat in the bone. Anybody can do that if they can be bothered and have nothing else to offer. He just wanted to be P.M, mate: probably some need to do better than his dad ever did. He saw the opening when Brexit came along : that was the vehicle that he jumped on (changing his mind about the EU very abruptly when he saw the opportunity. Please don't overrate Johnson just because he played the part.
Judge him by his actions.
But I have said a million times that Corbyn was not the right person to be P.M. He is not a user-friendly type of bloke (at least, seemingly so) and to his credit didn't try to be someone that he isn't. Image is all important in politics : I would suggest even more important than policies when it comes to elections.
I'm a patriot. I see Russia as a nuisance, Palestine as a nation that has been cruelly treated by Israel (they of all people should know better), and China as a threat to the region in which I live.
I see most of Europe as our friends (a relationship which is being soured by our childish, petty behavior since Brexit).
A patriot loves his country but scrutinizes his government and accepts his country's failings.
PS. My favourite nephew is called Paul and I call him Pauly (probably seen too many mafia films) so it's not meant to be derogatory.

 

[RedPaul]

I'm not trying to overrate him, just trying to give my view as to why more people voted for him than Corbyn, when push came to absolute shove.
For what it's worth, I don't mind clarifying that I voted for neither.

I think Johnson does have a view of the world and Britain's place in it, agree with him or don't. He has more beliefs than Cameron did, and more even perhaps than Blair did. In one of the most left-leaning cities in England he won 2 mayoral elections. He isn't just a shameless opportunist.

It was wrong for the main opposition to go into not 1, but 2, general elections with a leader who has beliefs that did not resonate with the overwhelming majority of the public. The anti-semitism issue just added a garnish of nastiness and bullying that the Conservatives had been more commonly branded with.

May went when it was obvious she had lost the confidence of her 'employees' and went, without the need for another formal vote.
Corbyn lost an actual vote by a margin of 3 to 1 and didn't.

That's why the Tories are in power and Labour aren't.

 

[Alistair20000]

I agree with Paul. So abhorrent was Corbyn to so many people that reasonable centre ground voters felt they couldn't risk voting anything other than Tory. Despite the uselessness of the ridiculous Swinson, the Lib dems would have picked up more seats in the absence of the Corbyn spectre and Dominic Grieve, to give one example, would have won Beaconsfield imho.

Evening art.

Think you are off beam with Grieve in Beaconsfield. Lib Dem stood down which should have helped him but he lost by nearly 16,000. Nowhere near close.

 

[RedPaul]

PS. My favourite nephew is called Paul and I call him Pauly (probably seen too many mafia films) so it's not meant to be derogatory.

No offence taken, my Grandmother did the same. Ok when I was 7, less so when I was 27...

 

[Alistair20000]

I'm not trying to overrate him, just trying to give my view as to why more people voted for him than Corbyn, when push came to absolute shove.
For what it's worth, I don't mind clarifying that I voted for neither.

I think Johnson does have a view of the world and Britain's place in it, agree with him or don't. He has more beliefs than Cameron did, and more even perhaps than Blair did. In one of the most left-leaning cities in England he won 2 mayoral elections. He isn't just a shameless opportunist.

It was wrong for the main opposition to go into not 1, but 2, general elections with a leader who has beliefs that did not resonate with the overwhelming majority of the public. The anti-semitism issue just added a garnish of nastiness and bullying that the Conservatives had been more commonly branded with.

May went when it was obvious she had lost the confidence of her 'employees' and went, without the need for another formal vote.
Corbyn lost an actual vote by a margin of 3 to 1 and didn't.

That's why the Tories are in power and Labour aren't.

Labour are useless in dumping bad leaders. Tories far more ruthless.

Corbyn doing better than expected in 2017 did Labour no favours in the end.

 

[IndoMike]

40% of Americans have 400 what? Brain cells?

Dollars
Brain cells? They have more prison cells.

 

[IndoMike]

No offence taken, my Grandmother did the same. Ok when I was 7, less so when I was 27...

Cool

 

[elginCity]

I think it is fair to say CV19 has made 'what it said on the tin' in December irrelevant.

Was thinking more of all the 'Pzazz', 'Vim and vigour' 'get things done' hokum on the tin. It's been sorely needed, and lacking.

 

[elginCity]

'The Brexiteers feel duped....'

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264467691362017280