Politics Today

[Hermann]

I've always been in favour of the first past the post system as I felt it could give you decisive Government, however in recent years and what we are having to put up with now by way of alleged Government and opposition, both of whom I would not vote for, I have swayed the other way to enable the voter more choice of seeing that their vote actually counts for something.

Welcome to the dark side. PR sucks, but it sucks a bit less than the current system. I've not voted for either of the big 2 since 2005, and I've never lived in a constituency where my vote mattered (unless you count Exeter). I take far more of an interest in local elections, where I'll always vote for an independent candidate.

 

[tavyred]

Democracy in the west has been in trouble since the GFC of 2008 IMO.
Speaking about the U.K. specifically, I think the GFC and how we as a country dealt with it, caused a huge sense of grievance (in England specifically) and laid the groundwork for an electorate eager to punish politicians by voting for things like Brexit, we now have a massive political schism in the country as a result.
The idea that PR will somehow cure that schism is for the birds IMO.

 

[Mr Jinx]

Democracy in the west has been in trouble since the GFC of 2008 IMO.
Speaking about the U.K. specifically, I think the GFC and how we as a country dealt with it, caused a huge sense of grievance (in England specifically) and laid the groundwork for an electorate eager to punish politicians by voting for things like Brexit, we now have a massive political schism in the country as a result.
The idea that PR will somehow cure that schism is for the birds IMO.

Lest we forget the GFC happened around the time of the MP's expenses kerfuffle. Trust in the Establishment and its systems were very much put into question. Similar happened in the Middle East shortly thereafter, then we got the Arab Spring. Fast forward another 4 years and we got Trump & Brexit.

For those wanting PR to solve the current schism here in the UK is laughable. That'll just open the door for Farage, Tice and similar and give them an even more elevated platform. FPTP for all its sins always gives us something slightly left or right of center.

The US got Biden over Trump, but if everyone thinks all their problems are instantly over are very much mistaken. If Trump does somehow get elected back in 3 years time, it'll all be about revenge and I imagine some hard rain is gonna fall.

 

[MJP_Exeter]

Democracy in the west has been in trouble since the GFC of 2008 IMO.
Speaking about the U.K. specifically, I think the GFC and how we as a country dealt with it, caused a huge sense of grievance (in England specifically) and laid the groundwork for an electorate eager to punish politicians by voting for things like Brexit, we now have a massive political schism in the country as a result.
The idea that PR will somehow cure that schism is for the birds IMO.

I think you are right in the sense that it led to the brutal austerity when the Tories came to power, an austerity project was entirely avoidable and was a political choice which lead to stagnation and increased borrowing / debt during that early period of the cameron / Osborne led government. We have now seen a decade of the worse wage growth in centuries, increasing poverty, a surge in food banks etc.

I do firmly believe if Cameron had come out for leave then remain would have won as i believe a section of the vote was an up yours to Cameron. Unfortunately as we see project fear coming truer by the day this is only going to screw over those whom most needed the lies of Leave / Johnson to come true. Incompetence and lies always get seen through in the end.

 

[tavyred]

MJP.
The jobs figures released today would suggest that the realisation of ‘project fear’ is even further away and not about to come true IMO.
Austerity had to happen and such was the massive size of the structural deficit, borrowing was always going to rise while that deficit was dealt with, where I had a problem with Osborne was that he decided to cut quicker and deeper than he needed to and even left some big spending departments alone. Osborne also primarily cut public services in England and generally left the devolved nations alone, is it any wonder the Brexit argument found a welcome home in the minds of the aggrieved English in the left behind areas of England? The Celts and middle class England have always seemed to struggle with that dynamic which was in play back in 2016.
It’s early days, but I think its a more likely outcome that those who you say needed the ‘lies’ of Leave/Johnson to come true, will in fact be able to look at their leave vote and consider it a wise choice.

 

[tonykellowfan]

London was the only English region that voted to remain, every other single English region voted to leave. Of the other nations, Wales voted to leave and Scotland and NI voted to remain.

 

[Spanks]

MJP.
The jobs figures released today would suggest that the realisation of ‘project fear’ is even further away and not about to come true IMO.
Austerity had to happen and such was the massive size of the structural deficit, borrowing was always going to rise while that deficit was dealt with, where I had a problem with Osborne was that he decided to cut quicker and deeper than he needed to and even left some big spending departments alone. Osborne also primarily cut public services in England and generally left the devolved nations alone, is it any wonder the Brexit argument found a welcome home in the minds of the aggrieved English in the left behind areas of England? The Celts and middle class England have always seemed to struggle with that dynamic which was in play back in 2016.
It’s early days, but I think its a more likely outcome that those who you say needed the ‘lies’ of Leave/Johnson to come true, will in fact be able to look at their leave vote and consider it a wise choice.

Until they realise that unfilled jobs are pretty much all in areas no-one really wants to work, doing things no-one really wants to do. Those jobs will either be filled by increasing wages (inflation) or will remain empty and the job won't get done (hgv drivers).

This is the first time, in my life time, that politicians are now claiming inflation to be a good thing, and we'll all benefit from it.

When the "left behind" realise that their mortgages and rent costs are going to outrun any increase in their wages, whilst fuel costs, direct and indirect taxation, council tax, waiting times et al all push in the wrong direction, then I wonder how long they'll support this Conservative "readjustment".

 

[Banksy]

The idea that PR will somehow cure that schism is for the birds IMO.

Maybe , maybe not , but it would give me and the rest of the 40% or whatever who aren’t represented at the moment something to vote for if only to shake up both bunches of clowns who seem to be folks’ only choice now. You know , that lot who think they’ve a divine right to govern indefinitely.I’ve no interest in either lot and why the blazes should I have given the way they’ve collectively let us down over the last ……..( fill in what you like) years.

 

[Mr Jinx]

Maybe , maybe not , but it would give me and the rest of the 40% or whatever who aren’t represented at the moment something to vote for if only to shake up both bunches of clowns who seem to be folks’ only choice now. You know , that lot who think they’ve a divine right to govern indefinitely.I’ve no interest in either lot and why the blazes should I have given the way they’ve collectively let us down over the last ……..( fill in what you like) years.

The last nationwide election that we had here which was full PR saw Mad Anne Widdecombe elected. She stood again not long after that under FPTP, and didn't even come close to getting a whiff. Jus sayin!

PR seems great in theory, but it's a long way from perfect.

 

[Banksy]

The last nationwide election that we had here which was full PR saw Mad Anne Widdecombe elected. She stood again not long after that under FPTP, and didn't even come close to getting a whiff. Jus sayin!

PR seems great in theory, but it's a long way from perfect.

I suppose you get nutters under every system to be fair , it’s just that I hate being told that it’s my democratic right to vote and that I ought to use it. Then all I‘m allowed to vote for that can form a government are two deadbeat past their sell by date parties . I’ve voted for Greens and Independents in the past but what’s the point? Little wonder the average Joe isn’t remotely interest in politics.
As someone said once , don’t vote for ‘em it may encourage them.( Oh and forgot to mention the bit about them feathering their nests at every opportunity on getting elected ending up with obscene daily payments for sitting on their arses in the out of date Lords.)