Politics Today

[tavyred]

Fair enough. Then yes he is, and yes they will. Any candidate for leader with half a brain wouldn't want the job right now, so Starmer it is.

Though at -18, he's only doing a little worse than the -14 Johnson is currently sitting at.

BJ is in the perilous position of having his record in Government to defend, in theory it should be IMO easier for the non incumbent Starmer to appear competent from the safety of the opposition benches.
I think the realignment in British (English) politics is bigger and stronger than we think.

 

[Hermann]

BJ is in the perilous position of having his record in Government to defend, in theory it should be IMO easier for the non incumbent Starmer to appear competent from the safety of the opposition benches.
I think the realignment in British (English) politics is bigger and stronger than we think.

Not sure the polls mean anything. Theresa May consistently had positive ratings in the run up to the 2017 GE and Johnson negative ones before 2019. Corbyn was sitting at -30s and 40s both times.

 

[Spoonz Red E]

We aren't in normal political times.
It's been Brexit, Covid, Vaccine and that's about it.
There has been no depth to politcal discourse for the last three years.

My opinion is that nothing is as deep seated as some make out.
I think the electorate is volatile and first past the post means that swings can happen either way.
Hence the huge effort by some to insist that 'debate' remains a binary standoff.

 

[tonykellowfan]

We aren't in normal political times.
It's been Brexit, Covid, Vaccine and that's about it.
There has been no depth to politcal discourse for the last three years.

My opinion is that nothing is as deep seated as some make out.
I think the electorate is volatile and first past the post means that swings can happen either way.
Hence the huge effort by some to insist that 'debate' remains a binary standoff.

I agree with this. If Labour could find a decent leader in the Tony Blair mould they could easily turn round BJ.

 

[tavyred]

My opinion is that nothing is as deep seated as some make out.
I think the electorate is volatile and first past the post means that swings can happen either way.
Hence the huge effort by some to insist that 'debate' remains a binary standoff.

It looks to me that the non metropolitan areas of the north of England are going the way of the Midlands, in that the traditional Labour support is ebbing away, seemingly never to return.
Brexit is not the transitory issue many think it is politically.
It won’t go away as too many on the liberal left refuse to let it go away, any Labour leader is doomed to failure if he/she doesn’t address the fact that most of Labour’s core vote would rejoin the EU in a heartbeat if they could.
Labour in short, has to have a message for an increasingly socially conservative yet aspirational English white working class.
It doesn’t have one.

 

[Mr Jinx]

I agree with this. If Labour could find a decent leader in the Tony Blair mould they could easily turn round BJ.

T'would that it were so simple.

Blair was simply a one off. I can't see anyone from the current fold that comes anywhere close. There's Andy Burnham, but I do wonder how a Northerner will get Southerners falling over to vote for him. He might help to gain back some of the Red Wall, but that's about it.

Lest we forget the forthcoming Boundary Changes and Voter Registrations.

Let's disregard polling for one moment. Boris, above everything else, is a winner. He doesn't go into battles he thinks he'll lose (e.g. first Tory leadership contest). He's also shown he knows how to play dirty.

 

[Hermann]

It looks to me that the non metropolitan areas of the north of England are going the way of the Midlands, in that the traditional Labour support is ebbing away, seemingly never to return.
Brexit is not the transitory issue many think it is politically.
It won’t go away as too many on the liberal left refuse to let it go away, any Labour leader is doomed to failure if he/she doesn’t address the fact that most of Labour’s core vote would rejoin the EU in a heartbeat if they could.
Labour in short, has to have a message for an increasingly socially conservative yet aspirational English white working class.
It doesn’t have one.

Labour have addressed it. They've said the matter is closed. What more do you expect from them? Ejecting every person who voted remain from the party?

The thing is, the swing to the Conservatives is not nearly as big as you make it out to be. You act like the entire working class has switched to the Conservatives en masses, but for the umpteenth time, they gained less than 350k votes in 2019. Lib Dems gained much, much more of Labour's lost support. Brexit may or may not be the issue you think it is. There will be a hard-core on both sides who won't ever forget (like yourself) but most of us have moved on to more important matters. Like who is propping up Johnson's magic money tree.

 

[tavyred]

Labour have addressed it. They've said the matter is closed. What more do you expect from them? Ejecting every person who voted remain from the party?

The thing is, the swing to the Conservatives is not nearly as big as you make it out to be. You act like the entire working class has switched to the Conservatives en masses, but for the umpteenth time, they gained less than 350k votes in 2019. Lib Dems gained much, much more of Labour's lost support. Brexit may or may not be the issue you think it is. There will be a hard-core on both sides who won't ever forget (like yourself) but most of us have moved on to more important matters. Like who is propping up Johnson's magic money tree.

Labour patently have not addressed Brexit, young Kinnock (and others) couldn’t wait to make a Brexit point re. Afghanistan the other day and even if Starmer is seen burning the EU flag in the future he won’t ever escape his Brexit past.
Brexit lives rent free in the heads of too many Labour politicians/voters for it to be a closed issue.

 

[Spanks]

The only people that cannot let Brexit go are the Leavers.

Just because causes and effects from Brexit are referenced (particularly as the Brexit we have was wanted, negotiated, and voted for by this Government), does not mean that the person referencing instantly wants to rejoin the EU.

Or are Brexit effects the only subjects in history that UK government is not allowed to be held accountable for?

 

[Mr Jinx]

The only people that cannot let Brexit go are the Leavers.

You obviously don't read the Guardian much.

Barely an hour goes by without a bitter journalist managing to shoehorn it in somewhere. And that's before you get to their echo chamber commenter keyboard warriors...