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Politics Today

tavyred

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True dat!

6095
 

IndoMike

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Also true.

In Gaza, at least 139 people have been killed, including 39 children and 22 women; in Israel, seven people have been killed, including a six-year-old boy and a soldier.

Did anyone blame David for standing up to Goliath ?. Or the French Resistance for their bravery in sabotaging the Nazis?

#say no to all violence....
 

tavyred

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Happening the world over Mike, 80 mostly schoolgirls killed in an Islamist terrorist attack on a school in Afghanistan last week, another 12 killed in a Mosque there yesterday. We shouldn’t be selective with our moral outrage just because it’s Jews/Israel pulling the trigger or launching missiles. Shouts of “to the river to the sea” in protests about Israel in the U.K. today, a cry people use when they’re wanting to see the destruction of the state of Israel and not just a cessation of violence against the nihilistic nutters of Hamas.
 

DB9

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Happening the world over Mike, 80 mostly schoolgirls killed in an Islamist terrorist attack on a school in Afghanistan last week, another 12 killed in a Mosque there yesterday. We shouldn’t be selective with our moral outrage just because it’s Jews/Israel pulling the trigger or launching missiles. Shouts of “to the river to the sea” in protests about Israel in the U.K. today, a cry people use when they’re wanting to see the destruction of the state of Israel and not just a cessation of violence against the nihilistic nutters of Hamas.
It's heartbreaking, Girls killed because they dare want an education, Children die because Gaza and West Bank is so urban and Hamas use the tactic of having their offices, military stuff and militants in the same buildings as where civilians live (So using them as a human shield) and an Israeli PM using this to deflect his corruption, I hate all of this and I hate "Selective Outrage" too. The violence has got to end but where are the next Sadat or Begin who are strong enough to take the first steps?

**Excuse the misspelling of past Egyptian and Israeli PM's who genuinely sought peace.
 

IndoMike

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Happening the world over Mike, 80 mostly schoolgirls killed in an Islamist terrorist attack on a school in Afghanistan last week, another 12 killed in a Mosque there yesterday. We shouldn’t be selective with our moral outrage just because it’s Jews/Israel pulling the trigger or launching missiles. Shouts of “to the river to the sea” in protests about Israel in the U.K. today, a cry people use when they’re wanting to see the destruction of the state of Israel and not just a cessation of violence against the nihilistic nutters of Hamas.
I agree entirely. But this thing about always bringing up a different wrong to justify the current wrong is not on. Also the instant knee jerk reaction to accuse people of being anti-Semitic if they criticise the state of Israel is also not on and is, frankly speaking, a cheap argument. In effect by doing so you are saying "don't you dare criticise the State of Israel for its actions because if you do you are anti-Semitic".
I'm afraid you do the same if we criticise the British government. ."Oh, you're anti-British".It's a cheap argument and actually makes no sense. If you and others criticise Biden I never say "Oh, you're anti- American!".
Were you anti-Catholic when the IRA conducted its bombing campaign?
 

IndoMike

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It's heartbreaking, Girls killed because they dare want an education, Children die because Gaza and West Bank is so urban and Hamas use the tactic of having their offices, military stuff and militants in the same buildings as where civilians live (So using them as a human shield) and an Israeli PM using this to deflect his corruption, I hate all of this and I hate "Selective Outrage" too. The violence has got to end but where are the next Sadat or Begin who are strong enough to take the first steps?

**Excuse the misspelling of past Egyptian and Israeli PM's who genuinely sought peace.
And yet you posted a few pages ago (quite rightly) that this latest confrontation was due to Netayanu stirring up trouble to save his bacon. Make your mind up, DB. You can't have it both ways.
 

DB9

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And yet you posted a few pages ago (quite rightly) that this latest confrontation was due to Netayanu stirring up trouble to save his bacon. Make your mind up, DB. You can't have it both ways.
I'm not, That is one reason for this latest confrontation but we all know its historical and God knows when it will end.
 

tavyred

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I agree entirely. But this thing about always bringing up a different wrong to justify the current wrong is not on. Also the instant knee jerk reaction to accuse people of being anti-Semitic if they criticise the state of Israel is also not on and is, frankly speaking, a cheap argument. In effect by doing so you are saying "don't you dare criticise the State of Israel for its actions because if you do you are anti-Semitic".
I'm afraid you do the same if we criticise the British government. ."Oh, you're anti-British".It's a cheap argument and actually makes no sense. If you and others criticise Biden I never say "Oh, you're anti- American!".
Were you anti-Catholic when the IRA conducted its bombing campaign?
Your point would be a good one if we never saw a blurring of the lines between the sometimes legitimate criticism of the state of Israel and the overt anti-semitism that the British left often engages in when they advocate for the rights of Palestinians. The fact is the argument you make about criticising Israel not being inherently anti-Semitic, was the one Corbyn made right up to the point his Labour Party was found guilty by the EHRC of anti-semitism.
I’m not accusing you of being anti-Semitic BTW, just that your moral outrage is that of someone who will go out of way to criticise the US, Israel and Britain, but you seem less motivated to criticise other acts that could be deemed as equal or may even surpass those we’ve seen in Israel these last few days.
Have you ever opined on the Uighurs in China or the excesses in Syria with the same passion you feel about the actions of Israel? I’m going to guess and say you haven’t.
BTW, the NI issue is not about race or religion per se, it’s primarily a political dispute based on the perception that the U.K. is occupying a part of Ireland when it shouldn’t be.
 

IndoMike

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Your point would be a good one if we never saw a blurring of the lines between the sometimes legitimate criticism of the state of Israel and the overt anti-semitism that the British left often engages in when they advocate for the rights of Palestinians. The fact is the argument you make about criticising Israel not being inherently anti-Semitic, was the one Corbyn made right up to the point his Labour Party was found guilty by the EHRC of anti-semitism.
I’m not accusing you of being anti-Semitic BTW, just that your moral outrage is that of someone who will go out of way to criticise the US, Israel and Britain, but you seem less motivated to criticise other acts that could be deemed as equal or may even surpass those we’ve seen in Israel these last few days.
Have you ever opined on the Uighurs in China or the excesses in Syria with the same passion you feel about the actions of Israel? I’m going to guess and say you haven’t.
BTW, the NI issue is not about race or religion per se, it’s primarily a political dispute based on the perception that the U.K. is occupying a part of Ireland when it shouldn’t be.
I am 1000% against the Chinese internment of Unghurs, the awful events in Syria and Yemen, Islamic terrorism, Myanmar dictatorship, Trump's scandalous assault on democracy, the dictatorships in Latin America, Israel's brutal attacks against the Palestinians , the Govt's that have abandoned their people re covid, +++.
It's a rotten world we live in but I manage to stay positive and hope others do too.
We can't do much but moan and groan about it all and that just bores the pants off people. I have discussed all the issues you mentioned with various non: Exewebbers. I even woke the missus up the other day to discuss Myanmar but I got a clip round the ear and infraction points from her for doing so.
Life is tough out East, and getting tougher every day
 

IndoMike

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Very interesting discussion on BBC4 about the futility of our current parliamentary system
and a proposal that 650 members of the public should be randomly selected instead every 6 months to discuss and make decisions. If they can arrive at a consensus probably better decisions would be made
The advantage would be that they would be more representative of the people, less politically tribal, more likely to be swayed by other, better opinions, and with no need to arse-lick to further their careers.
At present parliament is not a place for intelligent debate, as we know, but an infantile competition between 2 sides with pre-conceived ideological stances that they are likely to drop.
 
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