Politics Today

[tavyred]

For a non binding referendum the result has proven remarkably resilient, in the face of a 2/3rd’s Remain Parliament, a pro Remain civil society and a highly sceptical MSM it’s force is still strong.
The political class is still scared witless that if they don’t enact Brexit to the liking of people like me, then chaos will ensue.
The middle class hissy-fit on Brexit for the moment at least, is for the birds.

 

[Hermann]

For a non binding referendum the result has proven remarkably resilient, in the face of a 2/3rd’s Remain Parliament, a pro Remain civil society and a highly sceptical MSM it’s force is still strong.
The political class is still scared witless that if they don’t enact Brexit to the liking of people like me, then chaos will ensue.
The middle class hissy-fit on Brexit for the moment at least, is for the birds.

The problem being that people like you can't agree on what Brexit should be. Even on this board we've got you saying May's deal is Brexit and another saying it isn't.

 

[arthur]

Another one that can’t quite admit the inconvenient truth. Despite the Remainer bluster and general drippage, our political class simply cannot ignore the 2016 referendum result.

It's not ignoring it FFS. It's spent vast amounts of time trying to get to grips with it. I know Al says it's all quite simple and that vox pop woman on Tyneside summed up your view with " just get w' oot" but failing to implement the result, because, primarily, of the difficulty if implementing it without inflicting significant amounts of damage on the country is not the same as ignoring it.
You keep telling me and my ilk that we need to face reality and bow to the inevitable. In return I would suggest you face up to two inconvenient truths:
1. There is no added value to Brexit- almost everyone loses.
2. Despite you and Ramone and others framing this as a working class revolt against a metropolitan liberal elite, Brexit will not in any way empower the working class or improve its lot. The only people who'll benefit will be the hedge fund managers , money launderers, regulation avoiders, currency speculators and other members of the shady Brexit elite. People like Farage and Rees Mogg, true men of the people

 

[arthur]

Yes. If you are not in you cannot win.

If you do not bother or do not care you simply don’t come into consideration.

It's not just a question of which side won. The fact is that we are all, especially future generations, going to be significantly affected in all sorts of ways by this major constitutional change. (Compare this with a referendum on capital punishment for example which would directly affect very few people and could be reversed very easily). So the proportion of the whole country in favour of the proposition to change does become important and can't just be dismissed as a tactic deployed by poor losers. The fact that in most countries with a written constitution constitutional change has a threshold requirement bears this out.

 

[tavyred]

The usual Remain tropes that cannot escape the absolute truth. Parliamentarians can delay Brexit but they cannot override the referendum result unless they vote to specifically stop it. Why don’t they just do that? Why don’t they just listen to all those people who cite Leave lies, thick and racist right wing leave voters and the rest. Anyone?

 

[Mr Jinx]

2. Despite you and Ramone and others framing this as a working class revolt against a metropolitan liberal elite, Brexit will not in any way empower the working class or improve its lot. The only people who'll benefit will be the hedge fund managers , money launderers, regulation avoiders, currency speculators and other members of the shady Brexit elite. People like Farage and Rees Mogg, true men of the people

Again, nice try. The Hedgies, FX boys, launderers et al have operated on a win-win basis since the dawn of time. To claim they would benefit from a downturn (if that even happens) is a given. All you are doing is playing to the Euroloon gallery.

As for the Moggster, can't wait to see him marching into the Treasury this week (as is being predicted). The inevitable Guardian meltdown that will follow will be most entertaining.

Reports abound that Hunt is playing hardball and won't budge from the FO unless he gets to be Chancellor. That's a real toughie. I rate him and think he should be in the cabinet somewhere but I wonder who Boris has got in mind for Foreign Sec?

 

[Anonymous]

You would be right if Labour were fully a Remain party. But they are not. So you are wrong.

The majority of labour MPs voted remain. If the labour leadership were in any way competent and actually had some control of the party it would be a remain party, it's simply that Corbyn is incompetent and maybe senile.

 

[arthur]

The usual Remain tropes that cannot escape the absolute truth. Parliamentarians can delay Brexit but they cannot override the referendum result unless they vote to specifically stop it. Why don’t they just do that? Why don’t they just listen to all those people who cite Leave lies, thick and racist right wing leave voters and the rest. Anyone?

Can you give an example of a credible and sensible remainer (an oxymoron, possibly, iyho) who has called leave voters thick and racist? It seems an unbelievably stupid thing to do if you want to persuade Leave voters to change their minds

 

[Mr Jinx]

Can you give an example of a credible and sensible remainer (an oxymoron, possibly, iyho) who has called leave voters thick and racist? It seems an unbelievably stupid thing to do if you want to persuade Leave voters to change their minds

I was out with Remainer friends the other day and after a few beers one of them point blank said to me "All Leave voters are thick". He didn't know I'm a Leaver so I did call him out on it (very subtly) and it was the usual diatribe - "they just believed all the lies and they were ALL lies" "they just hate all foreigners that's all", etc, etc. I left it there and let him stew in his middle class rage, but if that's what the Remain camp largely believe then they have lost and will still lose. It's really not that straight forward.

 

[arthur]

The majority of labour MPs voted remain. If the labour leadership were in any way competent and actually had some control of the party it would be a remain party, it's simply that Corbyn is incompetent and maybe senile.

Back in the Tisdale middle years (2010 - 14) I began to suspect that there was a strong correlation between being anti Tisdale and having a right wing outlook. I enthusiastically lined up with Al, Tavy and, most obviously, the Great Curmudgeon who made no secret of being to the right of Ghengis Kahn, against dear Elgin, Stroudy and, most virulently, Anonymous who I now find I consistently agree with. Rae, of course, was the ultimate Rose Tinter, but I suspect she is a Lexiter. Jason was always on the fence IIRC. Anyone else noticed this?