Politics Today

elginCity

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No one's stopping your freedom, Just when you go into Europe you can't go through the "EU Citizens" control bit, You'll have to do what probably 90%+ of the world's population have to do, Apply for a visa.
He said 'diminishing' freedom. Today, if somebody wants to sell their council house and buy a retirement villa in Spain they need proof of income around £30k to qualify for a third country retirement visa. No problem for those with means, but for those without, it is a diminishing of their freedom. For what ?
 

arthur

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Art.
Slightly disingenuous post IMO.
Liberal self-loathing is not something people get accused of because of the reasons you suggest. The phenomenon, which has blossomed during the Brexit years, is one where if someone ever suggests a positive about Britain (past or present) he or she is met with a miserablist narrative with the sole intent of reducing Britain to an almost derisory level.
Your man Starmer gets it, that’s why he’s taken to parking his backside next to Union flags all of a sudden. It’s not going down to well with some of his supporters of course.
What is miserablist about not being happy about a country where inequality is rife, where educational attainment is poor, where lots of people can't get housed, where an electoral system is not fit for purpose?

What is miserabilist about voicing concern when those who choose not to conform to ostentatious displays of alleged patriotism, respect for heroes etc, are pilloried, despite the fact that they the censorious have no idea about how much those people love their country or respect those who have given their lives for it?

How is a new role for the UK, which sees itself as a progressive, liberal force for good, working in partnership with other nations to achieve beneficial outcomes tantamount to "reducing Britain to an almost derisory level"

How does stating that
this is something we can justly be very proud of.
constitute "liberal self loathing.

You and Jinx just construct a narrative that suits your very tenuous political position. The fact that this narrative is a fantasy is extremely irritating
 

Grecian2K

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We are the grandchildren of apes, not angels

tavyred

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Art.
This started with me in passing referencing Britain’s laudable role in freeing our continent from fascism and you others have spent the last few pages engaged in an exercise of diminishing that role and feeling the need to talk about the Russians or
Yanks for some reason.
You kind of make my point.
 

Mr Jinx

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What is miserablist about not being happy about a country where inequality is rife, where educational attainment is poor, where lots of people can't get housed, where an electoral system is not fit for purpose?
Well, this is essentially it. Ever since I've seen you post, when it comes to anything about this country your glass appears constantly half empty, whereas mine (and possibly Tavy's) is more half full.

You think our educational system is poor, but from where I'm sitting, having experienced it some other countries, I think overall it's pretty good. My biggest beef is with supply, e.g. shrinking catchment areas, but that's due to extraneous factors.

You're miserable about living in a country where inequality is rife. Well I've lived in countries where it isn't so rife (e.g. Sweden) and do you think they're a happier bunch?

As for electoral systems, like I've said many times before, ours certainly isn't perfect. But were we to go down a full PR route we could have quite easily had a deputy PM Nigel Farage at points in the last 5 years. I don't think that would've made you very happy either.

Try cheering up a little.
 
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Grecian2K

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You're miserable about living in a country where inequality is rife. Well I've lived in countries where it isn't so rife (e.g. Sweden) and do you think they're a happier bunch?
Is that a different Sweden to this one?
These Are the World's Happiest Countries | Best Countries | US News
An absolute scandal that Merrie Olde England can only scrape in a 15th. Obviously a "fake poll" - where's dear old Uncle Don when you need him to rattle a few cages at US News? :rolleyes:
 

tavyred

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And the ghastly realities of Brexit are even beginning to dawn on the once fervently pro leave DUP.
DUP: PM must activate emergency Brexit get-out clause to protect Union (msn.com)
Still, I'm sure Farage's remaining fan-boys will still continue with their myopic xenophobia and playbook of infantile insults to throw at any who dare to contradict them. :(
It would seem the Irish were playing silly buggers at Dublin Port and after hauliers (inc. ROI bound lorries) began diverting up to the more efficient passage through Belfast, the Irish got a tad worried and stopped playing silly buggers and suspended their new Brexit checks to make sure traffic ran smoothly again so the supermarket shelves in NI could be restocked again.
Probably like the Dutch, the Irish were being a bit mischievous at the start of the new arrangements in order to make a point.
Things will normalise I’m sure.
 
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