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Mr Jinx

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I guess those countries 'actually occupied' would have very good reason for embracing a peace project.
I'm sure they would and that was one of the initial aims with the EEC. However, I don't see what it has morphed into (the current EU) as a peacemaker and possibly now a body that could exacerbate conflict. We saw as much with the Greek crisis where you had their left wing government crushed by being in the EU suddenly demanding WWII reparations from Germany! Not everyone living under the EU umbrella is a happy bunny...far from it in fact.

We came along to Europe's rescue eighty years ago and I have no doubt we'll have to do the same within the next 100 years.
 
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arthur

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No.
Explain.
Must I?

Every time I suggest ways in which this country might be a bit better, or behave differently in relation to other countries, you accuse me of loathing it.

If a person were to be unwilling or unable to ask themselves questions, i.e. not deploy self criticial faculties for fear of what they might find, you would conclude they were insecure.

A country secure in its position, and at ease with itself, can tolerate asking itself questions and reevaluating its past. A country where when this happens, the questioners are accused of self loathing and lack of patriotism does not strike me as being in a good place
 

arthur

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We came along to Europe's rescue eighty years ago and I have no doubt we'll have to do the same within the next 100 years.
Yes, of course we did, under that great British general Dwight Eisenhower who masterminded the D Day landings, cleverly linking up with his British colleague General Zhukov whose troops captured Berlin.

Of course we were involved in the international operation to liberate of Europe and this is something we can justly be very proud of. But to reduce this to "we came to Europe's rescue" is simplistic nonsense
 

Alistair20000

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Interesting that the countries actually occupied by Germans are OK with being in a Union with them whereas our glorious island nation seems to find it impossible to embrace the concept.

And that those who most buy into this enduring folk myth, that we defeated the third reich during which the Soviets and Americans were mere bit part players, are not those who fought in the war, but those born in the 25 years after it.

Still as "not that long ago" to quote Tavy, becomes "a lifetime ago" for most people under 40, maybe things will eventually change.
I don't think one of the all time political greats Ernest Bevin would go along with this art.
 

DB9

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We came along to Europe's rescue eighty years ago
Not exactly us alone, We were part of an Allied force along with many other nations that help get rid of Hitler and Co. Plus in 1940 we did get our arses kicked by the Germans and got booted out of Europe by them via Dunkirk. Only a miracle that we managed to get 330k+ men back on UK soil but left everything behind.
 

Mr Jinx

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Yes, of course we did, under that great British general Dwight Eisenhower who masterminded the D Day landings, cleverly linking up with his British colleague General Zhukov whose troops captured Berlin.

Of course we were involved in the international operation to liberate of Europe and this is something we can justly be very proud of. But to reduce this to "we came to Europe's rescue" is simplistic nonsense
Well, we did, with others of course. Where did I say Britain won WWII off its own back? It didn't at all, I know that. American help was frustratingly minimal during its first two years but Britain managed to hold out with all hope seemingly lost at many points and it wasn't just because of 22 miles of sea.

Art, you just can't help yourself putting this country down at every turn can you.
 
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tavyred

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Art.
Slightly disingenuous post IMO.
Liberal self-loathing is not something people get accused of because of the reasons you suggest. The phenomenon, which has blossomed during the Brexit years, is one where if someone ever suggests a positive about Britain (past or present) he or she is met with a miserablist narrative with the sole intent of reducing Britain to an almost derisory level.
Your man Starmer gets it, that’s why he’s taken to parking his backside next to Union flags all of a sudden. It’s not going down to well with some of his supporters of course.
 

DB9

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I know that. American help was frustratingly minimal during its first two years but Britain managed to hold out with all hope seemingly lost at many points.
You mean when the US was a neutral nation between 39 and 41? I think they did a great thing by the "Lend/Lease" act. After Dunkirk we had very little equipment and Roosevelt supported us by proxy with that deal even though a lot of Americans wanted an isolation policy. By the way Hitler declared war on the US, The day after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Most US people wanted just to fight the Japanese only.
 
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Alistair20000

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Yes, of course we did, under that great British general Dwight Eisenhower who masterminded the D Day landings, cleverly linking up with his British colleague General Zhukov whose troops captured Berlin.

Of course we were involved in the international operation to liberate of Europe and this is something we can justly be very proud of. But to reduce this to "we came to Europe's rescue" is simplistic nonsense
art

We stood alone until December 1941 when the USA joined in. Hitler and Stalin had signed the German-Soviet Non Aggro pact in 1939 which both were going to tear up when it suited them but Stalin was not going to do that in 1940 to form an alliance with Britain. At that time we could have done nothing to help Russia.

Had we made a peace with Hitler in 1940 it is very probable that Hitler would have established his Eastern Empire and obliterated Uncle Joe, possibly with nuclear weapons if conventional forces failed to deliver. The USA would not have rounded up the German nuclear scientists. The US gave us help under Lease-Lend it is true but the continuance of the fight by the British Empire (for that is what it was at the time) shaped everything else. Had we not done that in 1940, D-Day would not have occurred and Ike and Zhukov would not have been marching into Berlin.

Yes it was a coalition of forces that finished the job but do not underestimate the importance of the early play deep in the defensive half.

I recommend you read a bit more about Ernest Bevin* (Labour) and what he has to say on the times.

*A patriotic man who loved the Union flag
 
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