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Politics Today

elginCity

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Jul 29, 2004
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Swindon
It's a great word is 'unfettered'. Habitual residence tests, right to reside tests, three month registration, employment and financial checks means 'unfettered EU migration' to some, and so unfair to the rest of us.
 

DB9

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Jun 19, 2005
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Hampshire. Heart's in N Devon
Silly you indeed.
The end of FOM will have to be be offset by present and future Governments organising themselves to the extent where reliance on cheap foreign workers is reduced.
I want to live in a country with a high wage, high productivity economy and that means the UK has to end its obsession with a subset of temporary workers driving down wages for everybody else.
That means any Government will have to tell employers in industries where they rely on "Cheap Foreign Workers" that will have to stop surely?
 

tavyred

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Aug 23, 2004
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That means any Government will have to tell employers in industries where they rely on "Cheap Foreign Workers" that will have to stop surely?
Not really.
Firms unable to access a bottomless well of cheap labour anymore, will have to pay more and/or employ less people via investments in productivity.
 

arthur

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Aug 18, 2004
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Silly you indeed.
The end of FOM will have to be be offset by present and future Governments organising themselves to the extent where reliance on cheap foreign workers is reduced.
I want to live in a country with a high wage, high productivity economy and that means the UK has to end its obsession with a subset of temporary workers driving down wages for everybody else.
Yes, it's all so simple isn't it. Just get rid of all those cheapjack foreigners and everything will be transformed. What's this "subset of temporary workers"? Are these EU lorry drivers, nurses, care workers and builders all temporary workers? The temporary workforce, such as it is, is largely made up of foreign workers because, as Anna Soubry pointed out to members of "the people" in her constituency "Are you going to get up at 3 in the morning to go and pick cabbages on the fens?"

Alistair will remind you of Harold Wilson's dictum - one man's pay increase is another mans's price increase. Your "the people" face a massive rise in costs if wages rise in certain sectors due to labour shortages - the whole issue is a lot more complex than you acknowledge
 

DB9

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Not really.
Firms unable to access a bottomless well of cheap labour anymore, will have to pay more and/or employ less people via investments in productivity.
Sounds so easy in theory but in practise not so.
 

tavyred

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Aug 23, 2004
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13,920
art.
It never ceases to amaze me how many left leaning so called progressives are so keen to see the continuance of the UK's low wage and low productivity economy.
Like the Labour party you support, you seem to major on the wants and needs of everyone else other than British workers. You even managed to reference a tired old trope about British people being lazy. (y)
 

arthur

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Aug 18, 2004
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art.
It never ceases to amaze me how many left leaning so called progressives are so keen to see the continuance of the UK's low wage and low productivity economy.
Like the Labour party you support, you seem to major on the wants and needs of everyone else other than British workers. You even managed to reference a tired old trope about British people being lazy.
...and it never ceases to amaze me that the debating tactic of those on the populist right is to misrepresent what their opponents said and then argue against a position they have not taken. (Admittedly this is slightly better than the approach taken by Stunning Droves, who doesn't even pretend to engage with the question asked).

Can you name a left leaning so called progressive who is favour of the continuance of a low wage, low productivity economy? (I can name plenty on the populist right - Nigel Lawson once said that in America, they have people employed to carry your supermarket shopping to the car - why don't we have that here as a way of reducing unemployment).

All I said was that it will take more than simply cutting off the supply of foreign labour to produce such a transformation and you know perfectly well that that's what I said. Yet you deliberately chose to misrepresent this as a desire to keep British workers poor. I believe the technical term for this is trolling....

And as for tired old tropes about laziness, I would refer you to your Brexiter mates who wrote Britannia Unchained - Raab, Patel and Truss amongst others:

The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.
 

DB9

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Hampshire. Heart's in N Devon
Wednesday is the day when asking for extention of the transition period offically ends, Point of no return then?
 

tavyred

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art.
IMO anyone who advocates the continuance of FOM is by definition consigning the UK to being a low wage economy. I know its de rigueur on here to paint me as some sort of rabid Thatcherite, but trust me I am not. It might be useful to remind some on here, I usually vote Labour and am only voting Tory now because they have been dragged kicking and screaming to a viewpoint that mirrors mine on Europe. All things being equal the Tories like every other party would love FOM to continue, but to their credit and now out of political necessity they realise the British public want the wage suppressing 'racket' to end.
As a former local trade union official, I can't for the life of me understand why the likes of Frances O`Grady is in favour of FOM. Her attitude unfortunately is typical of the left in that she would rather virtue signal on being nice to foreign workers than being an advocate for a high wage economy for everyone in the UK.
An interesting discussion below between Bob Crow (RIP) and Ken Clarke on QT, interesting in that the hardline union leader agrees with me and the former Thatcher era Minster agrees with you. ;)

 

elginCity

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Swindon
Wednesday is the day when asking for extention of the transition period offically ends, Point of no return then?
I believe Gove has already told the EU there will be no application to extend.

Fallout resulting from Brexit will conflate nicely with any fallout from COVID19, and therefore convenient for the Vote Leave Gov.

Being such a short time frame, in the midst of unprecedented times, we'll probably end up with a couple of bilateral agreements in certain key sectors, and for the rest it'll be tariffs and a bureaucratic nightmare. Never mind, it's the 'will of the people', all 34.9% of them.
 
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