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Politics Today

DB9

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I think it will be a while before the effects (good or bad) of Brexit are seen. It may well be bad before it is good. Or it may be ok, but not so good long-term.
People will argue about it forever more, and the CV has added another spanner in the works - to which both sides are already using to suit its own arguments.

I haven't been impressed with pan-European leadership during this crisis. Individual leaders have done well - Merkel, naturellment, but also the Greeks, Costa in Portugal, the Danes, amongst others. i admire Sweden for having the guts to stick with its plan - still unproven long-term if it was right.

The EU itself has looked impotent, lots of squabbling and finger pointing and the ECB rumpus, led by Largarde, remains a smouldering powder keg.
The EU will pull together through this because its in their interest to, Especially those countries that get moreout than they put in, They wont want to stop that.
 

RedPaul

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The EU will pull together through this because its in their interest to, Especially those countries that get more out than they put in, They wont want to stop that.
Problem is there are a lot of these. Germany, the Dutch and the Scandinavians are going to have to pay for it and the Bundesbank has already issued a big 'Nein' to the most recent plan.
 

IndoMike

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You can accuse Johnson of many things, but being a bit dim is a bit harsh. I don't mean he is clever just because he spouts Latin to get out of a hole, but does have some educational gravitas.

Regarding your critique of 'Boris Johnson - the artificial construct' , this has been a building a long time in the making. I think there is more to him than he has shown and I personally believe there was genuine sincerity in his wish to 'level things up' through, for example, investing in infrastructure. Even Andy Burnham was quite positive in the early weeks.

It is just CV has thrown everything out the window very quickly. How would others have coped in this crisis - Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May - we will never know because there is no comparison. I accept he looks out of his depth and now, exhausted and weighed down.
It doesn't matter what the others would have done : we have no way to judge that so it's pointless to mention that.
We're interested in the "now"...not some hypothetical comparison with political ghosts.
 

RedPaul

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Trump could have warned him about the caravan.
Trump said the hurricane was a hoax dreamt up by the Chinese and CNN and he knew so much about caravans it was unbelievable, practically more than anyone else, but if you drank bleach, that protected you from any caravan related injury. And in any case it was Obama's fault for giving every American a free caravan.
 

DB9

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Problem is there are a lot of these. Germany, the Dutch and the Scandinavians are going to have to pay for it and the Bundesbank has already issued a big 'Nein' to the most recent plan.
There are lot but these countries will still want FOM, Trading as a bloc rather than individual contries, If they want more close political ties then they will, Even that famous "EU Army" they will agree to that especially if they have a standard military equipment which can be produced in any of the EU countries, What this CV has taught us so far is that not combining and agreeing things as a unit, Instead of individual nations and doing things their own way has caused a massive economic problems and mortality rate.
 

IndoMike

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2024 could be a good election to lose as the economic impact of Covid-19 and its consequences will be biting very hard by then with only a choice of unpopular medicines to administer. Might not be much better by 2029 mind.
If (big "if) a foolproof vaccine is discovered and if (big "if") the economy is not hit by a double whammy of virus and BREXIT and if the virus does not mutate in a way which invalidates the vaccine, then I would hope that we'd be starting to recover by 2004. If all that happens then the Tories might win again. It depends if the people who are dissatisfied now have long memories.
Four years is a helluva long time in politics. Grayling might replace Johnson and the country could become one of the best ferry operators in the world !!
 
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RedPaul

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There are lot but these countries will still want FOM, Trading as a bloc rather than individual contries, If they want more close political ties then they will, Even that famous "EU Army" they will agree to that especially if they have a standard military equipment which can be produced in any of the EU countries, What this CV has taught us so far is that not combining and agreeing things as a unit, Instead of individual nations and doing things their own way has caused a massive economic problems and mortality rate.
I'm not sure it has. European countries have reacted in very different ways, and had very different outcomes - even within countries (Italy being prime example)
If I was Greek, Danish or Portuguese, I'd be quite happy we'd done something by ourselves and not followed the bigger countries; France, Spain, Italy.

We haven't agreed as 4 nations of the UK - to a point. Sturgeon would say it has been better as a result.
 

Hermann

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I think you are underestimating the personal feeling around not so much what Cummings did, rather than the farcical and arrogant reaction from himself and Boris with various roped in minister's. Thousands have taken a hard decision and kept to the rules. For a lot, the circumstances have been heart breaking, yet they done their civic duty. The feeling for these people has cut deep and is very personal, and they cut across political lines. That perception (and the perception of Boris's authority and ability) will have formed and hardened very quickly.
Maybe now, but if everything was sunshine and roses for the next four years, this would swiftly be forgotten. However, as it's very likely not to be, this might be another nail in the coffin.
 

Hermann

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I still can't see any way back for Johnson. He is devoid of talent, as, thanks to him, is his cabinet. Bluster politics - it'll all be wonderful, world beating, bla bla etc. - just won't cut it any more, but he has nothing else to offer. Nor does he have, unlike Thatcher and Major before him, the personal willingness and ability to knuckle down and see anything through to a conclusion. What passes for his "base" is the most angry of the whole electorate with the contempt shown to them by him and Cummings, and it is they who will suffer disproportionately from the after effects of Covid and a No Deal Brexit. On top of all that he has a competent Labour Party holding him to account with regular forensic questioning by a top QC which will leave him with nowhere to hide.
His base might be angry now, but as I've said many a time the right are much more able to hold their nose and vote for what they perceive as the lesser of several evils. You only have to witness the number of remain supporting conservatives who still turned out in force for Johnson in December.

Although I think there is a fair chance he may not contest the next election. In the end Cummings may well do more damage to Johnson in regards to the parliamentary party than the electorate.
 

IndoMike

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Don't know if this has been mentioned today or the case is remembered, but looks like Cummings is in the shyte again .....
 
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