Harry Lee and Sonny Cox - sign professional contracts

[SEA Grecian]

If these premier teams won’t meet our valuation of these boys then why do we let them go on trial, surely they must know what sort of fee we are asking for before they go

These players are effectively out of contract so we can't stand in their way. And if we get a reputation for being obstructive and not letting them go on trial then these youngsters won't want to join our academy in the first place.

 

[SEA Grecian]

Then the parents should listen to the club I certainly would not let my sons heads be turned at such an early age

I hate the way these conversations end up getting framed as loyalty versus money. If I was a parent in this situation I would try to make the decision that would best help my son develop as a footballer. For the players who are slightly below the absolute best players at the age of 16 then staying at Exeter is clearly a good option. However, there is an argument that for the very best players they are better off moving and taking advantage of the better coaching and training with better players. Jay Stansfield, in particular, seemed to improve hugely after joining Fulham.

 

[StudentGrecian]

But there's also the lesson of the hare and the tortoise. A lot of kids stand out when they're 16 because they have developed physically more quickly. And they stand out too because they're not playing against tip-top opposition.Thousands of kids taken on by academies fall by the wayside. If you look at England schoolboy teams over the last 20 years, how many made the grade.
The psychological impact on (effectively) academy kids who are later rejected must be pretty big. And they don't make a lifetime's earnings from one or two years even at a big-time academy.
Although it wasn't planned, Ollie's route worked out well. He wasn't thrown into the big time straight away : there were stepping stones. So Ollie was the tortoise but some of our kids will be the hares.
You can't begrudge kids or parents at all wanting to take advantage of offers to
join clubs for the glamour, facilities and financial rewards. Any normal family would be sorely tempted. But we don't know how good these kids really are until they are 18 or 19 years old. If they stand out in Div 2 clubs much higher than City will bid for them. So imo it's better that they find out their true level by being tested at City rather than taking the massive step to the Premier League and then being dumped, which the vast majority are.

But if they find out their level is in League Two then they’ve lost the opportunity to earn a lot of money at a bigger club. For example Goss has now found his level in the lower leagues, but he’s made a hell of lot more money than someone like MJ has along the way.

We can continue to point to Watkins as an example, but what about Sterling, Sancho, Foden, Alexander Arnold, Saka, Rashford, Rice, Greenwood? None of them have ever played a game outside the top tier.
The reason Watkins journey is recognised by the media is because it’s not very common. Not many players go from league two regulars to playing for England, its far more common for top tier academy players to make the England team. So the safer bet is clearly for these players and their families is to join the top clubs early.

I want these boys to stay, but can’t believe how many people take the view that it’s best for their career to stay here. Turning down these sort of offers is massive gamble for these young guys.

 

[IndoMike]

But if they find out their level is in League Two then they’ve lost the opportunity to earn a lot of money at a bigger club. For example Goss has now found his level in the lower leagues, but he’s made a hell of lot more money than someone like MJ has along the way.

We can continue to point to Watkins as an example, but what about Sterling, Sancho, Foden, Alexander Arnold, Saka, Rashford, Rice, Greenwood? None of them have ever played a game outside the top tier.
The reason Watkins journey is recognised by the media is because it’s not very common. Not many players go from league two regulars to playing for England, its far more common for top tier academy players to make the England team. So the safer bet is clearly for these players and their families is to join the top clubs early.

I want these boys to stay, but can’t believe how many people take the view that it’s best for their career to stay here. Turning down these sort of offers is massive gamble for these young guys.

Like I said, I can fully understand the academy kid and his family taking the opportunity to join a Premier League club and if I was the parent I might want that too : I don't know.
I'm just trying to say that there are two sides to every story. For every 16yr old who makes the grade there are hundreds that don't, not even at lower League level
Conversely,O'Shea spent time at City and it certainly didn't halt his progress.
I'm not talking about loyalty: I'm just saying that playing in Div 2 first would give a better idea of the kids true ability in men's football. You said "What if they're not good enough in Div2?". Well, you kind of prove my point. If they went to a PL club but it was found that when 18 or 19 they were not good enough even for Div2 they would quickly get the boot.

 

[StudentGrecian]

I'm not talking about loyalty: I'm just saying that playing in Div 2 first would give a better idea of the kids true ability in men's football. You said "What if they're not good enough in Div2?". Well, you kind of prove my point. If they went to a PL club but it was found that when 18 or 19 they were not good enough even for Div2 they would quickly get the boot.

My point was that even if they don't make it after their stint in a top academy, they still will have made more money than if they had stayed at City and not made it. So going to the academy is a no brainer, they can try their luck in League Two again if they get released.

 

[IndoMike]

My point was that even if they don't make it after their stint in a top academy, they still will have made more money than if they had stayed at City and not made it. So going to the academy is a no brainer, they can try their luck in League Two again if they get released.

My point is if they make a gradual step up in men's football as many players do they
will be better prepared. And there's no guarantee that all PL academy /U18s "rejects" will get into another professional team. Sixteen is too soon to tell how good they are. If they're really good at 18 at City, teams higher up the food chain will pick them up.
Randall and probably Key are in the sights of clubs higher up and they:re 19/20
About money, I don't know how much a 16 yr old academy player at (say) Arsenal would get. But which is better for a youngster make very good money for a year or two and then lose his way (as many do) or gain experience of men's football in Div 2 and then make a jump if someone is interested?
Anyway, I've already made it clear that nobody is judging a kid/ family badly if they accept an offer from a PL club and I might do the same : I'm only saying that it is not always as simple as taking the money and running. Homesickness and the consequence of failure are also factors.

 

[SEA Grecian]

My point is if they make a gradual step up in men's football as many players do they
will be better prepared. And there's no guarantee that all PL academy /U18s "rejects" will get into another professional team. Sixteen is too soon to tell how good they are. If they're really good at 18 at City, teams higher up the food chain will pick them up.
Randall and probably Key are in the sights of clubs higher up and they:re 19/20
About money, I don't know how much a 16 yr old academy player at (say) Arsenal would get. But which is better for a youngster make very good money for a year or two and then lose his way (as many do) or gain experience of men's football in Div 2 and then make a jump if someone is interested?
Anyway, I've already made it clear that nobody is judging a kid/ family badly if they accept an offer from a PL club and I might do the same : I'm only saying that it is not always as simple as taking the money and running. Homesickness and the consequence of failure are also factors.

There is no right or wrong pathway to the top and what suits one player won't suit another. Matt Grimes and Ollie Watkins both seem to have benefitted from staying in our Academy until they were 18 whereas Jay Stansfield seems to have really kicked on and developed as a player since moving to Fulham; Ethan Ampadu was good enough to play in the Premiership at 17; would he really have benefitted all that much from spending another season with us and being kicked up in the air by League 2 players.
And don't forget there are other routes to the top. Playing men's football as 16 or 17 years old doesn't seem to have Jordan Storey and Randell Williams much harm. And then there are the players who put their education first. Neither Friend nor Hartridge were full-time members of the Academy as they were concentrating on their A-level's and Matt Taylor and David Wheeler both completed university before turning pro.

 

[Maxi08]

I think you will find Exeter are fighting very hard to keep these two , with good offers and rejected fees , it will be interesting to see how it pans out . We have obviously learnt from the past

 

[Bittners a Legend]

But if they find out their level is in League Two then they’ve lost the opportunity to earn a lot of money at a bigger club. For example Goss has now found his level in the lower leagues, but he’s made a hell of lot more money than someone like MJ has along the way.

We can continue to point to Watkins as an example, but what about Sterling, Sancho, Foden, Alexander Arnold, Saka, Rashford, Rice, Greenwood? None of them have ever played a game outside the top tier.
The reason Watkins journey is recognised by the media is because it’s not very common. Not many players go from league two regulars to playing for England, its far more common for top tier academy players to make the England team. So the safer bet is clearly for these players and their families is to join the top clubs early.

I want these boys to stay, but can’t believe how many people take the view that it’s best for their career to stay here. Turning down these sort of offers is massive gamble for these young guys.

I almost completely agree with your post but would make the point that there are also clearly many more players in "top" academies who don't make it and who very much get left behind in terms of coaching along the way. It isn't simply a case of being at a top academy guarantees you better coaching than at L2 level - you're reliant at an early stage on the club focusing and being committed to your development over the 10s of other players at the same level.

I do think the game changer is now the money factor as much as the facilities. In the past these kids wouldn't have been offered the fortunes in signing on fees and wages that they are now. Even if you fail that money can give you an amazing start in life. It is a very difficult decision based on many factors unique to each individual but I don't think it is much of a surprise that more often than not these players move on when given the opportunity at a Premier League club. Not always necessarily the best career move but potentially the best life choice. That said I think we are in a better position than almost any other L1 or L2 club to make the argument for why it is worth staying here for two years and then moving on.

 

[IndoMike]

There is no right or wrong pathway to the top and what suits one player won't suit another. Matt Grimes and Ollie Watkins both seem to have benefitted from staying in our Academy until they were 18 whereas Jay Stansfield seems to have really kicked on and developed as a player since moving to Fulham; Ethan Ampadu was good enough to play in the Premiership at 17; would he really have benefitted all that much from spending another season with us and being kicked up in the air by League 2 players.
And don't forget there are other routes to the top. Playing men's football as 16 or 17 years old doesn't seem to have Jordan Storey and Randell Williams much harm. And then there are the players who put their education first. Neither Friend nor Hartridge were full-time members of the Academy as they were concentrating on their A-level's and Matt Taylor and David Wheeler both completed university before turning pro.

That's what I said.