Ethan Ampadu off to Chelsea

Boyo

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May 5, 2004
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2,232
I've said it many times before : it's no use just complaining because nothing will change. More direct action is necessary. But the problem is that many lower league clubs don't produce the quality young players that we do, so would prefer the crumbs that are thrown at us rather than kick up a stink.
Indeed. Every Club, regardless of whether they have an Academy receive an annual EPPP solidarity payment.
 

Matt Phillips

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Sep 14, 2016
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Matt.
I don’t know exactly what has been built into the club’s critical cashflow point forecast but in our Trust Chairman’s Dec 2019 newsletter he acknowledges that some of the windfall income this year has indeed deferred the critical point from January 2022 to July 2022. I also accept your point that (hopefully) the remainder of the season could generate additional windfall funding to that previously budgeted therefore further deferring the critical point.

However, at the Trust AGM last November, Julian Tagg pointed out that the “consequences for our budgeting could be catastrophic” if we have “a barren spell for two or three years” and likened our financial situation as being chased by a “juggernaut” towards a “cliff edge” . At the same AGM our Finance Director made the point that our financial reporting structure is designed “to ensure both boards know with some certainty when and if problems are likely to occur, most importantly cash flow problems, so we can start to plan well in advance the measures required to stave off those problems.” (https://1a1abc6b-ab19-4147-8bc5-b3a8f8ada934.filesusr.com/ugd/414a8e_711cdfd2ba2e475eb4944e41aa332227.pdf )

Julian Tagg also said at the AGM that “bumping along the bottom waiting for the juggernaut to catch up has no appeal for me and I believe many others” .

I am one of the ‘others’ mentioned by Julian and don’t want the club to go backwards due to having to cut budgets, loose our academy) etc. This is why, like Julian Tagg ( https://www.devonlive.com/sport/football/fulham-exeter-city-championship-football-3110749 )& Matt Taylor (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51134903 ), I’m trying to publicise the negative effects of the EPPP on our major income generator and widen the debate nationally to ensure that lower league football clubs, like ours, can remain sustainable and continue to supply the Premier League with ‘one of our own’ like Ethan Ampadu.

Taking Ethan as an example for instance the Tribunal valued him then at £2.5 million (combination of £1.3 million up front and £1.25 million dependant on up to 50 first team appearances). Under the EPPP, as Ethan was at our academy for 8 years, we would have got just £100k !

No organisation, let alone Fan Owned Exeter City, can afford to take over a 95% reduction in their major income stream.

This is why I call on Fellow Grecians to continue to lobby as I did last weekend (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ffrn from 28min 30 sec) before the ‘juggernaut’ forces us too close to the ‘cliff edge’ to survive as we are.

UTC
But, as others have mentioned, EPPP has been around for years. Also, as others have mentioned, neither Ampadu nor Stansfield left under this rule despite it being in place (I think Ampadu too old and Stansfield we negotiated a deal outside of the remit of EPPP).

I totally agree that EPPP is a crock of ... but we were, I assume, one of the majority of clubs that voted in favour of it. The chances of it ever being removed are minimal and if it does then we'll lose PL solidarity payments without doubt. The question is, does the volatile potential increase in revenue for selling players out of EPPP outweigh the stable income stream of solidarity payments. For us, that might be possible, but for the vast majority of EFL clubs, it won't happen. The only plausible reform I can think of would be to change the payments to being conditional on the status of the academy that a young player is going to, rather than where they are from (i.e. basing the valuation on the assumed cost of the player had they been in the academy they are signing for, reflecting the perceived ability of that player).

The critical thing is to focus on making the pathway through the academy to first team so attractive that youngsters don't want to leave. Selling the idea that a year or two around the first team, like Ampadu, Storey, Watkins - will stand them in better stead than going to an academy early and getting lost in the noise (Chrisene really needs to think about Dale Jennings to Bayern for instance...).

I really don't want to go off topic too much, but more widely the finance side isn't just tied to the academy. The "cash critical" view is base budget, so academy revenue doesn't come into it at all. To prevent that, we need to improve our base revenue. If we don't have another windfall, then we will drop off a cliff at some point, but that would happen with or without EPPP.
 

Boyo

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But, as others have mentioned, EPPP has been around for years. Also, as others have mentioned, neither Ampadu nor Stansfield left under this rule despite it being in place (I think Ampadu too old and Stansfield we negotiated a deal outside of the remit of EPPP).

I totally agree that EPPP is a crock of ... but we were, I assume, one of the majority of clubs that voted in favour of it. The chances of it ever being removed are minimal and if it does then we'll lose PL solidarity payments without doubt. The question is, does the volatile potential increase in revenue for selling players out of EPPP outweigh the stable income stream of solidarity payments. For us, that might be possible, but for the vast majority of EFL clubs, it won't happen. The only plausible reform I can think of would be to change the payments to being conditional on the status of the academy that a young player is going to, rather than where they are from (i.e. basing the valuation on the assumed cost of the player had they been in the academy they are signing for, reflecting the perceived ability of that player).

The critical thing is to focus on making the pathway through the academy to first team so attractive that youngsters don't want to leave. Selling the idea that a year or two around the first team, like Ampadu, Storey, Watkins - will stand them in better stead than going to an academy early and getting lost in the noise (Chrisene really needs to think about Dale Jennings to Bayern for instance...).

I really don't want to go off topic too much, but more widely the finance side isn't just tied to the academy. The "cash critical" view is base budget, so academy revenue doesn't come into it at all. To prevent that, we need to improve our base revenue. If we don't have another windfall, then we will drop off a cliff at some point, but that would happen with or without EPPP.
We were one of 22 Clubs that voted against EPPP.

I think we will do ok from the Ampadu transfer assuming he makes many appearances and then is sold at some point for big money.

I understand that the Club however are absolutely gutted with the Stansfield deal. The circumstances around that are less clear.

Our base budget is what it is, regardless of transfer income so technically EPPP is irrelevant. However, clearly higher revenue from Academy “assets” will I in be beneficial to us and our model.
 

Arthur Davey

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Apr 3, 2016
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[QUOTE="Matt Phillips, post
The critical thing is to focus on making the pathway through the academy to first team so attractive that youngsters don't want to leave. Selling the idea that a year or two around the first team, like Ampadu, Storey, Watkins - will stand them in better stead than going to an academy early and getting lost in the noise (Chrisene really needs to think about Dale Jennings to Bayern for instance...).
[/QUOTE]
Yep, I agree. That, for me, is key.
 

Colesman Ballz

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Dec 28, 2014
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6,835
Scaremongering that our Academy will close in two years is crazy. That could put the parents of young talented kids off enrolling them in our Academy in the future, would you enrol your son if you have doubts that it will exist two years down the line ? The worst scenario is that the First team budget has to be cut back temporarily. You simply don't kill the goose that lays the Golden Egg. Rail against the injustice of the system by all means and the fact that whilst the value of transfer fees has probably trebled, the EPPP payments have remained static. A cut back in the player budget would provide greater opportunities to the kids coming through, and they would be under contract and will be saleable assets.

We have moved on from the disaster of nearly going bust, and have learnt from it. The problem arose from over ambition by the Board at that time. Flushed with success of back to back promotions, they thought that they could do no wrong and tried to push for the Championship. There was no 3 year budgeting in place. A one year budget was put in place, based on an unrealistic forecasts for growth in income that were required to finance it. For two consecutive years Season Ticket Sales were brought forward to pay off the debts that were accrued, leaving off seasons with no income to support it. Hence loans from the PFA etc. The Trust's concerns were totally ignored. Fortunately that resulted in the Trust being able to exert it's authority over the Boardroom, and the financial controls that are now in place will prevent that reoccurring. We are probably now in a healthier position than ever before in our history.

There is no room for complacency, but we are on the right track, and yes we need to strive to get to a position whereby we maximise the income from the talent we produce, and get value for money. That aim will help to take us forward faster, no doubt at all.
 

pct333

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How many other City players have gone on and played in a Champions League match?
Although he was only on loan to Exeter City from Reading, ( playing 18 games in 2011 according to Wikipedia ) Ben Hamer played for Leicester away at Porto in the champions league :

 
Joined
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Exiled 40 milesish West
Scaremongering that our Academy will close in two years is crazy. That could put the parents of young talented kids off enrolling them in our Academy in the future, would you enrol your son if you have doubts that it will exist two years down the line ? The worst scenario is that the First team budget has to be cut back temporarily. You simply don't kill the goose that lays the Golden Egg. Rail against the injustice of the system by all means and the fact that whilst the value of transfer fees has probably trebled, the EPPP payments have remained static. A cut back in the player budget would provide greater opportunities to the kids coming through, and they would be under contract and will be saleable assets.

We have moved on from the disaster of nearly going bust, and have learnt from it. The problem arose from over ambition by the Board at that time. Flushed with success of back to back promotions, they thought that they could do no wrong and tried to push for the Championship. There was no 3 year budgeting in place. A one year budget was put in place, based on an unrealistic forecasts for growth in income that were required to finance it. For two consecutive years Season Ticket Sales were brought forward to pay off the debts that were accrued, leaving off seasons with no income to support it. Hence loans from the PFA etc. The Trust's concerns were totally ignored. Fortunately that resulted in the Trust being able to exert it's authority over the Boardroom, and the financial controls that are now in place will prevent that reoccurring. We are probably now in a healthier position than ever before in our history.

There is no room for complacency, but we are on the right track, and yes we need to strive to get to a position whereby we maximise the income from the talent we produce, and get value for money. That aim will help to take us forward faster, no doubt at all.
I totally agree that 'there is no room for complacency' and that we are 'now in a healthier position than ever before in our history' but we can't run away from the fact that, according to the BBC, Matt T has stated that "If an academy stops generating money, it's harder to run". (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51134903)
Our Academy essentially keeps the club afloat (either by providing 'cheap' players or income generating) which is why we need to continue to raise the negative effects of the EPPP on lower league clubs with academies given Matt's concerns.
Taking Ethan Ampadu as an example an over 95% loss in value from the £2.5 million Tribunal valuation if EPPP applied is why I, for one, will continue to petition to fairly recompense academies like ours before it is too late.
UTC
 

jrg333

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Although he was only on loan to Exeter City from Reading, ( playing 18 games in 2011 according to Wikipedia ) Ben Hamer played for Leicester away at Porto in the champions league :

5-0 - presumably not his finest performance!
 
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