Politics Today

[IndoMike]

I can't speak for Tavy but for me i see a very divided country and last night's debacle proved that. I do believe that Antifa on one side have some very nasty people in their ranks hell bent on violence and it has been showed all over the media/internet (Like you this is where i get all my info on too) Someone on here once said to me in a reply that the violence/protests over the past few months has been "A few broken windows" that is certainly not the case, Businesses, Livelihoods have been ruined and the commuinties Antifa are suppose to support are bearing the brunt of this violence, How does that make sense?

On the other side we have the odious alt-right which after last night have been emboldened by a President who said, Instead of condemming them, "Stand back, Stand by" to anyone that gives these thugs legitimacy and has already been put as a banner on websites, Biden should of condemmed Antifa too but shyed away from it and as said on here earlier today, If that is the choice the US have then god help them, You said the Democrats had good people in their ranks so why did they chose a 78 yr old who really should be thinking about retiring rather than take up the most stressful job in the world and a possible second choice for them was Bernie Sanders? Those good people in the Democrats you talk about are very poor at the choices they make imho.

You only have to see that in a country where bearing arms is a right and that people can openly carry assult rifles without others taking a second glance makes it a powederkeg over there and wouldn't take much for real violence to start, The right over there are using this as a fight for survival, their rights being taken away and the threat of Marxism taking over the States and they are frightened and when they're frightened with guns that makes it a dangerous place.

I will never condone violence on either side, That is not the answer and if others don't like my views then tough. In the middle of all this you have a nation who wants and needs direction, Not just domestically but internationally too, On the home front they need housing, Affordable healthcare, Decent public school education, A chance to get on in life but they're not getting this, Not only from Trump but in the Obama era too, The poverty in Democratic run cities is a disgrace and these are the things that need sorting, For years the ordainary American on the street has been ignored, Sound familier? That is why in 2016 Trump was elected.

You think you're the only one who doesn't condone violence? Wow, that's Mother Theresa on steroids...

 

[Spoonz Red E]

Nobody responsible wants violence but 'not condoning violence' is a catch-all.

Black protest in the US has been overwhelmingly peaceful for decades and they've suffered cracked heads and worse on peaceful marches, lynchings, church bombings, Jim Crow laws, housing discrimination - the list goes on.

There was a perfectly peaceful demonstration in 2016 (taking the knee) which was corrupted by the American right wing and Republican Party as 'disrespecting our troops'.

Most of the steps that were taken to evolve into the democracy we have today employed violence.
The suffragettes used violence to get equal rights for women.
British history is full of violent incidents and rioting to achieve what we now think of as basic rights.

The ANC used violence in the process of overcoming apartheid.

To just say 'I would never condone violence' ignores real world situations and context.

People who do not wish violence will condone violence if its use can be reasoned.
Spanish civil war.
Confronting anti-semitic British fascists in Cable Street.
French resistance.
Warsaw ghetto.
Romanian revolution....

We have a volunteer military trained and prepared to use violence.

I think the violence at BLM protests is counter productive.
It plays into Trump's ludicrous 'law and order' con.
It often wrecks the neighbourhoods and businesses of the communities themselves.
It allows the BLM message to be distorted by its opponents.
It allows for provocation and more violence under the guise of 'maintaining order'.
It deepens resentment and division.

But the false equation being energetically promoted is protests = violence.
There have been protests in the US virtually everyday in almost every city - the vast majority entirely peaceful.

 

[Mr Jinx]

An interesting point from Spoonz.

If there hadn't been rioting at the Poll Tax demo in 1990, would we still be paying it now? Would Thatcher had 5 or more years in power? Would John Major have happened? Would Tony Blair have been PM?

A lot of questions there.

If there had been significant rioting at the otherwise peaceful Iraq War demo in 2003, would Tony Blair have changed his mind?

If you really need to make your point and be listened to, sometimes you have to go the extra mile.

 

[ramone]

To what extent have Antifa been involved in rioting across certain cities in the US?

Seattle Times: When antifa hysteria sweeps America

Mr Kristof isn't he the person who supports Hamas, famously said sweatshops are good for people in poor countries even though they are regularly not allowed to use bathrooms etc and also said flame retardants in furniture are a public risk lol

 

[lamrobhero]

I can't speak for Tavy but for me i see a very divided country and last night's debacle proved that. I do believe that Antifa on one side have some very nasty people in their ranks hell bent on violence and it has been showed all over the media/internet (Like you this is where i get all my info on too) Someone on here once said to me in a reply that the violence/protests over the past few months has been "A few broken windows" that is certainly not the case, Businesses, Livelihoods have been ruined and the commuinties Antifa are suppose to support are bearing the brunt of this violence, How does that make sense?

On the other side we have the odious alt-right which after last night have been emboldened by a President who said, Instead of condemming them, "Stand back, Stand by" to anyone that gives these thugs legitimacy and has already been put as a banner on websites, Biden should of condemmed Antifa too but shyed away from it and as said on here earlier today, If that is the choice the US have then god help them, You said the Democrats had good people in their ranks so why did they chose a 78 yr old who really should be thinking about retiring rather than take up the most stressful job in the world and a possible second choice for them was Bernie Sanders? Those good people in the Democrats you talk about are very poor at the choices they make imho.

You only have to see that in a country where bearing arms is a right and that people can openly carry assult rifles without others taking a second glance makes it a powederkeg over there and wouldn't take much for real violence to start, The right over there are using this as a fight for survival, their rights being taken away and the threat of Marxism taking over the States and they are frightened and when they're frightened with guns that makes it a dangerous place.

I will never condone violence on either side, That is not the answer and if others don't like my views then tough. In the middle of all this you have a nation who wants and needs direction, Not just domestically but internationally too, On the home front they need housing, Affordable healthcare, Decent public school education, A chance to get on in life but they're not getting this, Not only from Trump but in the Obama era too, The poverty in Democratic run cities is a disgrace and these are the things that need sorting, For years the ordainary American on the street has been ignored, Sound familier? That is why in 2016 Trump was elected.

I assume that Biden has condemned the violence though I haven't heard the soundbite

I assume that Trump has condemned the violence though I haven't heard the soundbite. I have heard Trump encourage violence. I have heard Trump encourage extra-legal action by law enforcement.

Trump has supported vigiliantisim, reached out to extreme right wing groups and got the support of right wing extremisits. This leaves him with a problem. He needs to normalise his own behaviour. He needs to create an equivalent on the left to distract from his own behaviour and make it the "new normal". Hence Antifa.

My basic point is that there is a false equivalence between between Trump and Biden being put forward by some. If I had been in Biden's shoes I would have condemned the violence but I would NOT have reinforced the false narrative about Antifa.

I acknowledge the second hand nature of my views and I am open to being persuaded that this perception is wrong.

 

[lamrobhero]

Mr Kristof isn't he the person who supports Hamas, famously said sweatshops are good for people in poor countries even though they are regularly not allowed to use bathrooms etc and also said flame retardants in furniture are a public risk lol

Thanks for that I do not know much about Mr Kristof. If he is not a credible source then I apolgise. But my basic qustion still remains.

To what extent have Antifa been involved in rioting across certain cities in the US?

 

[ramone]

Thanks for that I do not know much about Mr Kristof. If he is not a credible source then I apolgise. But my basic qustion still remains.

To what extent have Antifa been involved in rioting across certain cities in the US?

Look up a guy called Jeffrey Alan Acord an organiser of BLM and Antifa gatherings !
But of course these type of people will deny ever having been part of Antifa exactly the same way as the nutters from the right will never own up to being part of the good boys organisations.

 

[dontpassback]

Incompetent goon,who has damaged the country and the Tory party beyond belief

 

[elginCity]

Incompetent goon,who has damaged the country and the Tory party beyond belief

364 Tory MPs don't view him in the same light as you or I, else he'd be gone.

Difficult to fathom, isn't it ?

 

[dontpassback]

364 Tory MPs don't view him in the same light as you or I, else he'd be gone.

Difficult to fathom, isn't it ?

He hasn’t gone yet,but I expect the knives are being sharpened !